There is an adage that says
All poets should own a goat

If Unca Joel accepts
then VanagonGerry will be his goat

being akin to poets Joel,  Ben T and Chris of JordanVW all get get my vote
to co-moderate
yours
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Don Spence <dkspence@telus.net> wrote:

> you have my vote too Joel
>
> Hate to see your poetry be banned!!
>
>
> On 16-Jan-09, at 1:28 PM, Automatic digest processor wrote:
>
>  joel walker wrote:
>>
>>> Some things need cleaning up, but mostly I would like to see the
>>>>> [NVC]
>>>>> become standard fair for off topic subjects. And to see Frydaye
>>>>> Follies
>>>>> become a permanent part of the scene.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some people will leave if this is done.  Already, when people first
>>>> sign up,
>>>> they are often overwhelmed by the volume of mail and back out.  If
>>>> half of
>>>> that mail is not even about vanagons, it will be that much worse.
>>>>
>>>
>>> i strongly disagree.
>>>
>>> from the onset, the vanagon list has always been much more than
>>> just a
>>> tech list ..
>>>
>>> it's been a small cul-de-sac community of people. and people don't
>>> always sit around, talking over coffee and beer, about tech things.
>>> and some 'tech things' aren't really tech things ... do you like the
>>> look of the round headlights versus the 86-91 rectangular ones? South
>>> African headlights versus the other two types? are white-wall tires
>>> really only for old american cars?  which beer goes best after
>>> repacking your cv joints? :)
>>>
>>> the volume of mail is usually set off by differences in opinions
>>> about
>>> some subject, which often IS more techie than not ... like tires,
>>> heat, rust, and headlights ... and by "oh, that happened to me, too!"
>>> stories. all of which is vital to a community ... if we don't share
>>> stories and i-did-that-this-way opinions, then it might as well be
>>> every man/woman for themselves ..the human 'community' got ahead by
>>> HELPING each other, not by hiding secrets from the rest of the
>>> community. competition helps, too ... so we have more than one list
>>> vendor to take care of that end ... you can buy parts from several
>>> different places, even in canada! and germany, and belgium.
>>> nobody in
>>> england or mexico yet, though. :(
>>>
>>> the Frydaye Follies are sort of a release valve for the rest of the
>>> week ... like Friday afternoons or "casual fridays" at work ...
>>> getting together at the nearby pub/bar/whatever for a beer with your
>>> co-workers after a long week of putting up with the boss (in our
>>> case,
>>> a much-discussed administrator/moderator) ... a day when tech talk
>>> doesn't have to be so high on the must-do list.
>>>
>>> in other words, the list is a sort of reflection of our work lives
>>> and
>>> our personal lives .. not just some committee meeting where technical
>>> schedules and difficulties are hashed out or put off til "the next
>>> meeting tomorrow at 2 o'clock".
>>>
>>> and i think this is a good thing. that this is the way it should be.
>>> it certainly worked well way back when, in the beginnings of the
>>> list,
>>> when most of us Vanagon owners needed a lot more than tech
>>> help ... we
>>> needed a support group, a clan to tell us that we weren't stupid and
>>> crazy for owning and loving these buses ... that it wasn't totally
>>> illogical and we could show the wife/whatever that there WERE other
>>> people out there and they were like me, and this is a good car and we
>>> ought to keep it.
>>>
>>> people don't always see the future the same way, even when they
>>> espouse the same ideals, or drive the same cars, or even live in the
>>> same community ... and it takes discussion to work it out so we can
>>> ALL be comfortable and secure and not worry about our sanity and
>>> safety ... and this is most definitely NON-technical, at least not
>>> technical about volkswagen vanagons. :)
>>>
>>> this is why i must strongly put in my own personal protest at making
>>> THIS list a totally tech list, without any regard for the community
>>> conversations most of us have enjoyed throughout the years. we've
>>> developed friendships (albetit over email, but some of us have
>>> actually MET other vanagon owners in person), and i don't think you
>>> get much of that spread around the community if you go tech-only.
>>> i've
>>> seen this happen on other lists, particularly the Type2 list, and i
>>> don't like it ... it reminds me waay to much of those tech committe
>>> meetings ... yes, they are necessary. yes, they contribute to the
>>> running of the world we work in and live in. but no ... they should
>>> NOT be the end-all be-all to life or this list.
>>>
>>>  So it seems kind of unfair to abuse their place on this list
>>>> by sending them things they really didn't ask for.
>>>>
>>>
>>> so how unfair is it to abuse the non-tech folks who did sign up for
>>> 'support group' type discussions ... and just generally to hang
>>> around
>>> with other folks driving the same type of car, and to gain
>>> ammunition/information to use against the wife to keep the bus in the
>>> family ... with all the high-tech .blather??
>>> do we really care about the 930 cv joints or putting a tiico or
>>> bostig
>>> engine in some bus to gain horsepower and bragging rights? the great
>>> majority of the list members will never have the money nor the
>>> mechanical expertise nor even a local mechanic able to comprehend
>>> such
>>> technical jobs ... for us, it's just coffee-table magazines and
>>> books,
>>> like the picture books of Porsche 911s and Ferarris and Aston Martins
>>> ... and Playboys: just window dressing; pipe dreams; something to
>>> peer
>>> at through the dust of our dreary day-to-day lives. ;)
>>>
>>> and that's ok ... for those of us who actually do have the garage and
>>> money and tools and mental agility to do such things, great .. go for
>>> it! the rest of us will live our dull hum-drum lives vicariously
>>> through you, just like we do with Richard Jones's trips through the
>>> Rockiesk, and Frank Condelli's many trips from Canada to Mexico, and
>>> all the other road trips we see not nearly enough of to suit me. ;)
>>> are road trips to be banned from the list? they aren't technical at
>>> all! all subjective and opinionated.
>>>
>>> and i think very very necessary. if your neighbor goes off on
>>> vacation, and doesn't come over to harange you with tales of how bad
>>> it was in Orlando with all the 'tourists' trying to get to Disney
>>> World, a lot of us would feel a bit hurt ... it's kinda fun to watch
>>> someone try and cram a week of insanity with wife, kids, dogs, cars,
>>> traffic, hotels, restaurants, and all the other things that go with a
>>> 'road trip' into a few minutes of conversation ... at least, i enjoy
>>> it. and i think a lot of others on the list do, too. :)
>>>
>>> that's my opinion and you're welcome to it.
>>>
>>> unca joel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

--
roger w
There are two kinds of jobs in the world:
Picking up garbage and telling people things.
Successful people do both, with the same good attitude. (riw)
----------------------------------------------------------
Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/
View the growing list of video work at:
http://revver.com/find/video/?query=LastonLastof&search_on=owners
and ... older work at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7135104650374818257
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3259745150182742364