My 1.9 vanagon has most recently been only getting to a temperature where
the needle on the guage is about a half a needle's width below the LED. In
the fall it would run perfectly right over the LED but now it's
substantially cooler. It puts out heat just fine, but takes a while to get
the needle moving and then only goes to that point.

I'm guessing i need a new thermostat, but my thermostat is only a year old.
There might be some air in the system (though very little). I doubt that
could have anything to do with it though.....

Do you guys reccomend a particular thermostat or course of action? Dealer
thermostat?

-Craig
'85GL turned WESTY

On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:

> re
> "the other subtle difference is  that the Subaru system mixes air to
> control
> the temperature in the
>
>> mixing / distribution box'
>>
>
> Sorry...........I don't believe that's true, not even a little.
> It is true that Subaru, almost uniquely I believe, uses full time heater
> circuit flow .  But nowhere is air mixed into the heater circuit.
> That's a quite bizarre statement - maybe that's not what was actually
> meant.
> .
> On  most cars, and vanagons, when you close the heater valve/s.......there
> is no, or very minimal coolant flow in the circuit...........and thermostat
> sensing takes place from the main coolant in the engine.  Whether heater is
> in use or not, the thermostat reacts to main circuit coolant.
>
> Subaru has their thermostat sensing .............what coolant the t-stat
> sees and reacts too.................from the heater circuit,  so they need
> full time heater circuit flow, winter and summer.
> Only brand of car that does it that way, far as I know.  That needs to be
> accommodated in Subaru-vanagon engine conversions of course.
>
> Many more mdoern cars have their thermostats mounted on the bottom of the
> engine, in the return side of the main circuit. Subaru does.
> So do all inline four gas and dissel VW rabbit/golf/jetta engines, starting
> in about 1975, and continued still, over 30 years later,  in modern FWD 4
> cylinder VW engines.
> Can't see how it's 'better protected from the elements" though...........
> it's closer to the road and yuck from the road.
>
> the guage sensors are in about the same or comprable place on the 2
> engines.
> In the subaru it's in the water manifold...........
> a cast aluminum pipe across the top of the engine, joining the two heads,
> and under the intake manifold.  The waterboxer vanagon engine has no part
> thing of course.
> The vanagon  guage sensor is located right near the water pump
> ............that single contact temp sensor there. If you have AC, it's
> hard
> to see under the compressor. If no AC.......you can look right in there and
> see it plane as day.
> Scott
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> - Show quoted text -
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>
>
>  Interesting! And were is the Subaru's temp gauge sender located in
>> relation to the 1.9l's? Is one is a better spot to more quickly "see"
>> the rise in engine temp?
>>
>> --
>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>> Bend, OR
>> KG6RCR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/7/2009 8:16 AM David Milo wrote:
>>
>>> Aside from the length of the hoses, the other subtle difference is
>>> that the Subaru system mixes air to control the temperature in the
>>> mixing / distribution box, whereas the Vanagon was designed to use a
>>> manually controlled coolant modulating valve (yes, even in the rear)
>>> controlling flow through the heater core to control temperature. In
>>> the Vanagon, you can almost (but not quite) completely shut off flow
>>> through the heater cores.
>>>
>>> In the Subaru, the coolant flow through the heater core is constant,
>>> and is actually the coolant circuit that modulates the thermostat
>>> (located on the bottom of the engine, return hose from the radiator).
>>> As others have pointed out, it is much better protected from the
>>> elements.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com <mailto:camping.elliott@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I reckon there are two things that I need to observe: 1. the time it
>>>    takes for the temp gauge to start moving from the cold pin (Mrs
>>>    Elliott's Subaru comes up a lot sooner), and 2. how soon before one
>>>    starts to feel tendrils of warmed air come creeping out of the vents.
>>>    Again, it's much quicker in the other car. If these are significantly
>>>    longer time than others, like Jake, observed then something there's
>>>    something fishy going on. Given that the thermostat is such a pain to
>>>    get to on the 1.9l engine, I'll want to be fairly sure that
>>>    replacing it
>>>    is a worthwhile project.
>>>
>>>
>>>    --
>>>    Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>>    84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>>    74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>>>    Bend, OR
>>>    KG6RCR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    On 3/6/2009 9:47 PM Jake de Villiers wrote:
>>>
>>>        On account of this thread I paid attention this morning on the
>>>        way to work
>>>        in the grey van.  It took about a mile at ~30 degrees F. to feel
>>> a
>>>        difference, about 3 for it to be warmish.
>>>
>>>        I've noticed that the rear heater gets warm a lot quicker on
>>>        both vans.
>>>
>>>        On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:35 PM, alfred bagdan <abagdan@shaw.ca
>>>        <mailto:abagdan@shaw.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>            If you have the rear heater valve open, most of the hot
>>>            coolant goes
>>>            through
>>>            the rear heater.  Try closing the rear heater and see what
>>>            happens.  Also
>>>            replace your thermostat in case it is stuck open.  If the
>>>            temperature gauge
>>>            does not go up to the halfway point in cold weather, you
>>>            will probably have
>>>            to replace the thermostat to get some decent heat.  Its a
>>>            bitch of a job,
>>>            but doable.  When  I replaced the hoses last summer I also
>>>            put pipe
>>>            insulation on the hot lines and also replaced the
>>>            thermostat and the water
>>>            pump.  What a difference that made.  I live in Edmonton,
>>>            Canada,  and I
>>>            drove the van once this winter when it was -30C ( ~ -20F )
>>>            and it was warm
>>>            as toast inside, and didn't take long to warm up.
>>>
>>>            Alfred
>>>            85 Westy
>>>
>>>            ----- Original Message -----
>>>            From: "Mark Tuovinen" <mst@AK.NET <mailto:mst@AK.NET>>
>>>            To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>            <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>>
>>>            Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 2:49 PM
>>>            Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come
>>>            up to speed
>>>
>>>
>>>             You just send her up here to drive my Syncro on a
>>>            cold(subzero) morning,
>>>
>>>                she will appreciate your van much more afterward.  My
>>>                kids ride to school
>>>                with a blanket over them for warmth and they are
>>>                wearing winter coats,
>>>                hats, mittens, and boots at the same time.  Vanagons
>>>                have a rather large
>>>                area to warm up and the front core is a long way from
>>>                the heat source.
>>>                Though it won't cure your problem you could put pipe
>>>                insulation on your
>>>                front heater hoses under the van.  This will reduce
>>>                the heat loss that
>>>                occurs before the hot coolant gets to the core.
>>>                 Another and more
>>>                difficult issue to deal with is that the front heater
>>>                only draws air from
>>>                outside, it does not recirculate cabin air.  Thus
>>>                while your heater core
>>>                is trying to warm the air, the air is trying to cool
>>>                the core.  Not an
>>>                issue in moderate climates but those in extreme cold
>>>                areas suffer because
>>>                of it.
>>>
>>>                Mark in AK
>>>
>>>                ----- Original Message -----
>>>                From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM
>>>                <mailto:camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>>
>>>                Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009 4:35 pm
>>>                Subject: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come
>>>                up to speed
>>>                To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>                <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>
>>>                 My wife's Subaru Outback's heater is ready to put out
>>>                some serious therms
>>>
>>>                    in about 3 minutes of drive time. The temp gauge
>>>                    comes up quickly,
>>>                    whereas the temp gauge in ol' Mellow Yellow needs
>>>                    another 5-8 minutes of
>>>                    driving in freezing temps to really start to creep
>>>                    upwards and for the
>>>                    heater to start doing anything interesting.
>>>
>>>                    I'd like to think that the difference is due to
>>>                    the awesome efficiency of
>>>                    the WBX engine . . . I'd like to think that, but
>>>                    something tells me that
>>>                    a 2006 Subaru engine is a tad more efficient. So,
>>>                    does anyone have any
>>>                    idea why the 1.9L engine is so sluggish compared
>>>                    with the Outback's
>>>                    engine when it comes to making hot water available
>>>                    to the heater core?
>>>                    Mrs Squirrel gripes about how long it takes to get
>>>                    warm air to come out
>>>                    the heater and I'd like to have some
>>>                    highly-technical answer to respond
>>>                    with. You know, baffle them with BS?
>>>
>>>                    --
>>>                    Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>>                    84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>>                    74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San
>>>                    Juan Capistrano
>>>                    Bend, OR
>>>                    KG6RCR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        --
>>>        Jake
>>>
>>>        1984 Vanagon GL
>>>        1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>>>
>>>        Crescent Beach, BC
>>>
>>>        www.crescentbeachguitar.com <http://www.crescentbeachguitar.com>
>>>        http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>