> I have yet to see any of those you mentioned 10 miles
> up an old logging road with full camping gear on board.

Mark:

A couple of summers ago I was coming down the W side of
Hagerman Pass in Colorado--almost to the 2wd county road--
when a white MB with the top down and an "Aspen couple"
were heading up.  Little did they know that in a couple
hundred yards they would be driving a short distance in
a diversion ditch with ~8" of water and lots of big rocks!
I'm pretty sure the rims and tires were stock....

I almost pulled over to see if they would come back down,
but I liked the thought of them heading on up--after bashing
through the ditch--to many miles of
http://jones.colorado.edu/jones/HagermanPass/RoadDown.jpg
until the MB took a rock to the oil pan.   ;-)

There is too much money in Aspen--and too many drugs--
and not enough brains....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagerman_Pass

Richard