Scott,

I understand - I've done enough backyard alignments. I'd never do one for
real road use - it's just not possible to get close enough.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/
256-656-1924

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans [mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 3:17 PM
To: Tom Hargrave; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Trying To Understand Tie rod Adjustments

right........
but we're not talking about 'on a rack at the alignment shop' are we ?

We're talking about back yard............shade trees mechanicin'
...............

and........I'm curious - is Neil's goal to get it good enough to drive to an

alignment shop,
or get it good enough for real road use ?
I get them quite good with just back yard methods. ..
and ................( on no ! ) no centerline reference point.

ok.......trivia question.......
name a mass-produced four door hatchback car from a Euupean car company
.....
with a wheel base that is shorter by a solid 3  inches or so on the right
side, than on the left side .
( and if you tweak the torsion bar preloads incorrectly......you can get
oversteer turning one direction,
and understeer turning the other direction - lots of fun ) .

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@hiwaay.net>
To: "'Scott Daniel - Turbovans'" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>;
<vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: Trying To Understand Tie rod Adjustments

> Actually, there is a center line, or more correctly, a center plane - it
> is
> calculated by the machine when the car is put on the alignment rack.
> Consider the center plane a vertical wall that goes straight through the
> vehicle from front to back and it is at a perfect right angle to the rack.
>
> All alignment measurements are referencing this center plane.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com
> http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/
> 256-656-1924
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:42 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Trying To Understand Tie rod Adjustments
>
> all right .......
> I'm getting what's going on perhaps .......
> Neil for your thinking ........IF there was a 'center line' in the middle
> of
> the van , that you measured toe from for each front wheel.......
> that would make perfect sense......but there isn't.
>
> the 'physical point' you measure from is .........each front wheel
> relative
> to the other.
> you measure between the front and rear edges to get the toe reading.
> ( which is why I wrote that 'it balances out' ...........like if you start
> out with the left wheel at zero toe, and the right one toed out say a half
> inch .........as soon as you drive 6 feet.........they'll balance out (
> and
> the steering wheel will move left some in this case ) ........
> so you'll be driving down the road.........going straight, and with a half
> inch of toe out , measured from wheel to wheel in front.
>
> here's how I measure toe......
> suspension must be settled of course.
> using two yard sticks..........measure the distance between the two front
> wheels.........as close to the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions as you
> can
> get.
> I measure on the tire itself...........on a smooth spot , like no letters
> or
> bumps.
> Measuring on the wheel rim is OK.........but, the further you get from the
> center of the wheel, the more accurate your measurements will be.
>
> supposing you had a 10 foot long 2 X 4 mounted on each spindle perfectly
> .....so that they extended 5 feet for and aft from each spindle.
> then you measure toe by comparing the distance between the two ends of the

> 2
> X 4's way out in front......
> then at the rear of the 2 X 4's .......this of course would be far more
> accurate, since the 2 X 4's magnify things.
>
> but that's not too practical.
> I just measure at the tires.......from side to side..........at the front
> of
> the tires, and at the rear......
> aiming for about 1/16ths to 1/8th inch toe in, measured at the tires.
>
> hope this helps some !~
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "neil N" <musomuso@gmail.com>
> To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
> Cc: <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 11:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Trying To Understand Tie rod Adjustments
>
>
>> 2009/4/11 Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>:
>>> I meant to also say .....
>>> for a base steering wheel being centered place to start -
>>> remove the key, and let the steering lock with the steering wheel
>>> centered.
>>> then try to get toe and camber right ,
>>> and i ...
>>
>>
>> Thanks Tom and Scott.
>>
>> I'm starting to understand more. And I was right in thinking that a
>> wheel could be toed in or out independantly of the other. So with that
>> in mind....
>>
>> A point of confusion remains. (and this may not be the problem, but I
>> suspect it is due to swap of a tie rod)
>>
>> Let's way the left wheel is 0 toe, but the right wheel is x degrees
>> toe out.  How do I get the right wheel to 0 so I can set the correct
>> amount of toe in? i.e. what physical point do I measure from to set
>> the toed out wheel straight?
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
>>
>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>
>>
>
http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engine
> s
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