Very well written Ben too many people complaining about the price and not
looking about what they get, we are professionals like a plumber or a
electrician don't hear them bitching at what it cost's to unclog there
toilet.Too bad about ending the body work just when I was hopping to ask you
to give me a Quote on Whitey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Benny boy" <huotb@VIDEOTRON.CA>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Engine conversion on 84 Westy

> Thanks, it's real nice to see someone who understand something!
> You must have owned a business in your life :-)
>
> This is one thing that got me... exhausted, cheap Vanagon owner who want
> everything for nothing, and i have seen may share of that. Today, i can
> spot
> them from miles away. Not to talk about the 4000$ that peoples owe me
> since
> i open the shop because i was to much of a nice guy.
>
> I can tell you all one thing, for us (Hans from Vanaru and me), it's a
> passion thing... Especially for Hans in regard of Subi conversion, i can
> tell you that after quite a few years we are still struggling money wise.
> That is a fact. But we are getting there, slowly but surly. By the time i
> close my shop in 2 years i should be about even money wise.
>
> You have very well explain the situation of a small, very small company
> that
> live out of a dreams and passion more than anything else, same goes for
> Bostig and i'm sure it was the same for TIICO, Fast Foward or any other
> small one who where passionate about Vanagon. But being passionate people
> are often not good business man. Just take Boston Bob story before and
> after! Talks to Daryl at AA, I'm sure he as a similar story.
>
> I have been working on those vans for 5.5 years in my shop, 3 years at
> home
> and on my own vans before.
>
> I plan to retired from Vanagon in 2 years. Do something more lucrative
> like
> restoring a 200,000$ collection car or even a sail boat. My girl will be
> done with her PhD and will make way more money that i'm doing now, for
> now,
> I work like a dog so she can end the long road she is in peacefully. And
> for
> those who know us, she as work in my shop for 2 years so we could survive,
> she as save my shop, with her money and time involve, she knows more about
> vanagon than 95% of you guys.
>
> The fact that i live in the rust belt got me exhausted and somewhat
> discouraged. I had it! Rust, dirt and grease are a sad fact of VW vanagon.
> Lately, my hands heart a lot from small bleeding crack that don't have
> time
> to heal.
>
> Even if i'm doing my 31th Subi conversion it's still somewhat of a
> challenge
> each time, but at least it's cleaner work.
>
> In the case of a late Subi engine conversion, price vary a lot, sometime
> you
> make more sometime you make less. Instead of taking 10 days to do one i
> can
> do one in 5-7 days, but what about all the hours lost at the beginning...
> researching, tying, failing, starting over... The guys at Bostig knows
> what
> I'm talking about. It's a never ending story.
>
> Now i would be curious to see how many REAL hours a DIY would put on a
> Subi
> conversion, in average, not the single case where everything went well.
> Even
> stock engine can be a nightmare.
>
> I agree that Bostig is a nice option for DIY. But me, i really like the
> torque and power of the 2.5L. On top, it's very easy to push the 2.5L in
> the
> 200hp without Turbo. No Turbo mean one less part to go wrong on a long 10k
> miles trip.
>
> A 160-180hp is a perfect power plant for an heavy van like the Vanagon
> camper and it's still very economic on fuel.
>
> This week is a reflexion week for me, time spend working on those van,
> spent
> on my web site or on mailing list/forum... men that is a lot of hours.
>
> I decided for many reasons to stop body work, i'm doing my last one now. I
> may do a few NON rusty one in the next 2 years but that's it! Same story
> with stock engine, i lost my machinist so I'm not going on bottom end no
> more, if i decide to do stock engine it will be rust free and only top
> end.
>
> I have lost the battle with rust... no way to save those seam, and i have
> tried everything.
>
> Sorry for the long post, but i have been writing here since 99 so...
>
> Regards, Ben
> http://www.benplace.com/
>
>
> On Wed, 6 May 2009 11:38:55 -0700, Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
>
>>Jamie,
>>
>>  I don't think you're being a crybaby but then these shops who do
>>conversions have to make some money.  Yes, if and when everything goes
>>exactly right and perfect, they probably make a bundle!  But that 'perfect
>>case'/ everything goes according to plan engine conversion is surely the
>>exception.  They have to charge enough to cover the times when bolts break
>>off in the customer's van, when the Vans in for the conversion are POS!
>>and
>>all rusty or the motors are wrong, or some other complication has to be
>>chased down and remedied before the customer is happy with the deal.  You
>>probably have no clue as to all the strange stuff that costs a shop $ that
>>must come from somewhere...
>>
>>  It's like trying to charge for a re-model in the construction
>> trade...You
>>know how long things *should* take..but they don't always work out that
>>way
>>and sometimes they can take 5 times as long, not because the fella doing
>>the
>>work messed up but because something that couldn't be predicted is
>>encountered...Once you take on the job, you can't go back to the customer
>>and say..."Oh, Sorry, but it will be 5 times more than I said to finish
>>this
>>up because -______ and _____  came up"..
>>
>>  So these established conversion shops have to charge enough to average
>> out
>>a reasonable profit..The fact that they are still in business..that shows
>>they've got it pretty close to right..If they were really outrageously
>>overpriced, someone would be doing it for less and taking all the
>>business.
>>If they were under priced and losing money..well, I don't see many people
>>who'll PAY to work on someone else's vans day in and day out.
>>  Good luck with it though.  You'll still be 'ahead' with a newly
>> converted
>>older Vanagon than if you went out and bought a Sprinter or some other
>>brand
>>new 'vanagon' imitation.
>>
>>  Don Hanson
>>
>>On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Jamie Fitterer
>><fittdog8848@hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been looking for someone to do a conversion for me and it seems
>>> that
>>> those that do this seem it is worth charging double for the subaru
>>> engine or
>>> charging ASTRONOMICALLY high prices just for the install.  Now I
>>> understadn
>>> that their services are valuable, but i also realize that they probably
>>> havea system down that allows the m to convert an engine realtively
>>> fast.  I
>>> do not think that I should be able to get a brand new engine in my truck
>>> for
>>> 4K installed and that does not even cover the cost of a replacement in
>>> some
>>> cases for a conversion engine in a Volkswagen.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone out there know of any other places taht are reasonable when
>>> it
>>> comes to engine costs and installation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have already looked at www.smallcar.com, www.vanaru.com.  I do like
>>> Vanaru's engines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope I do not sound like a cry baby!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Guys
>>>
>