I agree with you about sharing experiences, and I never said "don't
put them on straight out of the box. �I said that I would never put
them on straight out of the box.

To be fair, you did state that "you won't treat a disease that doesn't
exist". �Perhaps you meant that in your experience, you've never seen
the dreaded AMC valve stem disease. �In the big picture, it doesn't
really matter.

Marketing is one thing, but I think anyone would be hard pressed to
state that a stock AMC head is equivalent to an AMC head that has been
upgraded with better valves and keepers. �Particularily, the
sodium-filled exhaust valves.

Cheap exhaust valves and VW boxer engines just don't along. �That's as
true today as it was when I first started turning wrenches for a
living on VWs in the 70's (Harvey's Automotive in Leucadia, CA). �Put
cheap exhaust valves in your Type 4 engine and I can guarantee you'll
be replacing your heads in the not-to-distant future. �The
water-cooled engines are a little less picky, but the problem still
remains.

In my experience... it's just not worth saving a few bucks over.

Cheers,

Jeff

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@comcast.net> wrote:
> Jeff, of course I don't think that these guys are all in cohoots with eac=
h
> other or that they are raking customers over the coals. =A0However if you=
�can
> make your product seem better than others and even set yourself up and th=
e
> one and only source for something isn't that a great marketing plan? =A0I=
�am
> not saying that AMC heads never go bad. =A0I have seen them fried to deat=
h by
> customers who drove their vans with no coolant and abused their engines.
> =A0Nothing can withstand abuse. =A0But I am just sharing my experience wi=
th
> properly installing these heads for myself and customers over the years. =
=A0I
> usually have two Vanagons on the road at all times. =A0I drive them daily=
�and
> I also take at least two 1600 mile road trips each year. =A0I have never =
had
> any of these problems crop up in my own vans nor have I seen them in
> customer's vans. =A0Some of my customers are locals who rarely drive thei=
r
> vans, some are folks who made it to the East Coast and broke down and are
> going back to the West Coast as soon as the van is fixed. =A0Others are p=
eople
> who want to take the Vanagon camper dream trip around the US. =A0I have w=
orked
> for all of these different versions of van owner. =A0I am just sharing my
> experience. =A0Jeff is sharing his. =A0Who is right? =A0We both are, we a=
re just
> telling what we have seen and experienced. =A0However when people put a f=
lat
> stamp on something and say, "No you can never just use an AMC head out th=
e
> box." =A0I think folks that have had other experiences should be able to =
share
> what they have found or have experienced as well.
> Just my opinion.
>
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
>
> VW Doka wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Normally, I would agree with you. =A0But I find it hard to believe that
>> Boston Bob, Bus Depot, GoWesty, etc., were all in collusion just so
>> they could tack an additional $100 onto the price of an AMC cylinder
>> head.
>>
>> I've experienced the same issues they have (on a smaller scale) and am
>> not inclined to dismiss this known issue so easily. =A0No way I'll put
>> an unmodified AMC head in one of my motors, let alone one of my
>> customer's.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Marc Perdue <mcperdue@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Given the widely diverse experiences you all are having/have had, I'm
>>> beginning to wonder if there's a difference in your processes, i.e.,
>>> what exactly you do when you replace the heads, set the valves, what
>>> specs things are set to, etc. =A0On the surface of it, you'd think ther=
e
>>> couldn't be a difference; after all, how many ways are there to do the
>>> job? =A0However, all other things being equal, i.e., if the AMC heads
>>> each of you get are essentially identical, then how is it you could be
>>> getting such different results? =A0This is just sort of the systems
>>> analyst in me talking, with a hypothetical ponderance...
>>> Environmental considerations certainly could come into play, I
>>> suppose, but I suspect there's something else going on . . .
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:51 PM, VW Doka <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Doesn't exist"?? =A0That pile of scrap AMC heads that I took the
>>>> recycler must've been a mirage...
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it's a "west coast" thing...
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jake, I am with you on this one. =A0I have done many, many head gaske=
t
>>>>> replacements and head replacements over the years. =A0I don't know th=
e
>>>>> exact number but it is well over 50 at this point (maybe over 100 I
>>>>> don't know). =A0I have used the AMC heads exclusively for the past 11
>>>>> years. =A0Out of all of those jobs I have never had one come back due=
�to
>>>>> a
>>>>> bad valve. =A0Actually out of all of those jobs I have only ever had =
to
>>>>> redo one and that was at the very beginning of my business and due to=
�a
>>>>> bad spot on the case that I didn't properly address (live and learn).
>>>>> Beside that I have never had a head gasket or head replacement job ev=
er
>>>>> come back or have a problem that I know of. =A0That is a pretty good
>>>>> track
>>>>> record. =A0I am a small shop, I hate returns way worse that you ever
>>>>> could
>>>>> since I do this job many times a year not just once. =A0If I thought =
for
>>>>> a
>>>>> moment that this was a problem I would change the valves myself so th=
at
>>>>> I could avoid a come back. =A0It just has never happened so I don't f=
eel
>>>>> like treating a disease that doesn't exist. =A0I am just sharing my
>>>>> experience here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken Wilford
>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>> www.vanagain.com
>>>>>
>>>>>