Slightly off topic but meant for a List Moderator, so maybe it's
acceptable..Delete for no real van content..

Been following this thread, sort of then I see Ben's reference to working on
his sailboat as his next endeavor?  Wow, Benny.  "out of the fry pan, into
the fire" when you talk change from Vans to sailboats.  You think Van
customers are 'difficult'...boat owners are much worse, Yes, really.
 I worked as a boatbuilder and a shipwright in a high performance full
service boatyard for  a bunch of years where we dealt with the best yachts
in the Puget Sound area as our customers.  Talk about some ungrateful
cheapskates with an unrealistic idea of what a skilled craftsman was worth.
  Now , at least a VW bus, if you fix it but it breaks again..you can
just pull it over beside the road or tow it back to the shop and try again.
When a customer asks you for a 'cheap' fix...just to "get by"..well you can
tell em it's a waste of their money to try that.  When they complain about
your hourly rate..you can tell em to get lost or explain, with the help of a
flat rate book how the hours will charged out..
  But in that boatyard people would bring us very very expensive yachts with
simply awful work that had been done to them, very unsafe, ridiculously
dangerous stuff...and we would point that out to the customer as we saw it.
When they came to us with a needed repair on an Orient-built 'knock-off' of
a Swan Yacht (or something similar) that they had paid just $.10 on the
dollar for and we would tell them they needed (to be reasonably safe) at
least a whole new rig (Mast, stays, chainplates, etc etc) because theirs was
"junk" they would simply flip!
 When they saw our craftsmen were being charged out at $28/hr..they thought
that was outrageous, even though most of them were making thousands of
dollars  (at least), clear, per day and those who charged billable time were
charging double or even triple figures..... by the minute..
  My pay, as a Journeyman shipwright was just $14/hr (before taxes) while in
the residential construction business I could make into the high $20s with
fewer tools and better working conditions..No health care benefits, either
of course.
  We once reviewed our Boatyard billing records, during one Xmas season when
we were slow.  Of the jobs we'd done during the previous year for nearly 300
yacht owners...only two out of the 300 actually had incomes that depended on
them doing something real..making something, fixing something you could
hold, dealing with a real physical object!  The rest of them (298 of 300)
just moved around intangible stuff..insurance policies, lawsuits, brokerage
accounts..etc etc...   But they, a great percentage of them anyhow, would
quickly point to some task we had billed out and say..."Crap, you charged me
2 whole hours to replace a hose clamp on a through-hull fitting?
Outrageous!"...When you explained  that that fitting was beneath their
auxiliary motor, almost corroded away  and if it failed even 1 mile from
shore they and everyone aboard would be swimming or drowned...It flew right
over their heads....
  No, Van owners are Princes...Kings...compared to a lot of yacht owners
when it comes to paying, without much whining,  value for work done.
  Good luck with the boats..don't try to earn a decent living at
boatbuilding though..You think wrenching on vans sucks?...
  And thanks, BTW,  for all the van tips.you've passed on to the list..
  Don Hanson

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jeff Lincoln <magikvw@gmail.com> wrote:

> Boy I just ran across this thread and I can't say that it hasn't run me
> through a long list of thoughts and feelings.
>
> First, I have to say that the knowledge you (Ben) have shared over all the
> years on this list is gratefully appreciated. I've told you so myself. I
> have a lot of respect skills, abilities, and your knowledge. I wish I could
> do or knew half of what you are capable of.
>
> Second, I also disagree - Boston Bob has not been forgotten - I'm willing
> to
> bet most on this list would agree.
>
> My last point is said as politely as I possibly can because I am not trying
> to start anything or flame anyone - so please take that into consideration.
> The last handful of posts I've read from you have been full of so much
> bitterness and what seems to be jaded resentment that I think switching to
> sailing might be a good thing for you. I don't say that to be smart
> a$$ - it's just the observation I have had at reading your posts.
>
> Ben - Thank you again for all of your help and sharing - you'll be missed
> around here. You're a good man. Best to you in your new endeavor.
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
> '90 Carat (Grover)
> '86 (We call this one Parts)
> '78 Bus (Melissa) Patty's Bus
>