None of which changes the difference between stated value and agreed 
value insurance.  We needn't discuss this further.  DMc

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:20 PM, dylan wrote:

> My vans are restored/converted by me and the least appraised value of 
> them is $65,000.00.
> I'm not talking about a 2wd worth a few thousand, I'm talking about 
> Syncro and Syncro Westfalia vans that have had $50k worth of work done 
> to them on top of inital purchase prices.
> Again, this has been covered in complete detail with numbers and 
> contacts, numerous times and available in the archieves.
>
>  
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "mcneely4@cox.net" To: dylan Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 5:54:10 PM
> Subject: Re: insurance terminology
>
> You may have aided in such recovery, but that does not change the 
> definition of the term.  If you were able to prove that the actual 
> value was the amount you proposed to settle for, and that that was the 
> least of the stated value, the cost to repair, or the actual value, 
> then the company would be obligated to pay the amount proposed (or the 
> stated value if that was less).  My point is unchanged, that stated 
> value does not guarantee that that amount will be paid.  Agreed value 
> seems to do so.  But in that case, the proof is required at the time 
> the policy is written.
>
> If insurance is $300 per month, that is $3600 per year.  Most of us 
> self insure on collision and comprehensive if the ratio of premium to 
> value reaches that level, given the likelihood of loss.  Even if the 
> van is appraised at $36K, the insurance cost is simply not worth it, 
> unless the risk of loss reaches about 10%.  Most of our vans are worth 
> considerably less than that.  My camper might sell for $15K -- I'd try 
> to get that. But not $36K.  A GoWesty restored van?  Don't know.
>
> David Mc
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:58 PM, dylan wrote:
>
>> Try the archieves.
>> I have written about this numerous times as well as others.
>> I have helped recover over $50k from stated value policies three 
>> times in the past 10 years.
>> If you monthly budget for insurance on your van is less than $300, 
>> don't bother.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "mcneely4@cox.net" To: dylan Cc: mcneely4@COX.NET; 
>> vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 1:46:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: insurance terminology
>>
>>
>> See my embedded comments.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:20 PM, dylan wrote:
>>
>>> Better do a little more researching.
>>
>> Here are links to two of the sources I used.  These two agree with 
>> the various insurance companies I consulted.
>>
>> http://www.4carinsurancequote.com
>>
>> http://vehicleappraisers.com/Insurance_Information.html
>>
>> If your sources differ, please provide the sources, as I am well 
>> satisfied after consulting quite a few myself.
>>
>> Bottom line is as I stated --- read the fine print, and make sure you 
>> are getting what you think you are getting.
>>
>>>
>>> Try Hemmings Motor News.
>>>
>>> What you have stated may be true for Gieco or similar, but there are 
>>> companies that deal only with classics and stated value policies.
>>>
>>> I have helped a few listees over the years setup policies and 
>>> recover more than the van sold for at the dealer, when it was 
>>> totalled.
>>>
>>> Go Westy has helped show the retail value of these vans.
>>>
>>> dylan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Dave Mcneely To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 11:45:23 AM
>>> Subject: insurance terminology
>>>
>>> After the discussion of stated value insurance, I did some
>>> investigation.  I found:
>>>
>>> 1.  Stated value insurance seems not to differ from the insurance 
>>> that
>>> we all carry on late model cars, except there is a maximum value 
>>> stated
>>> in the policy.  The policy with the stated value typically has a
>>> provision that in case of theft or total loss, the insurance company
>>> will pay the lesser of (1) the stated value, (2) actual cost to 
>>> repair,
>>> or (3) actual cash value at the time of the loss.
>>>
>>> So, stated value insurance seems to offer no advantage to the 
>>> consumer
>>> (owner of a vanagon, for example).
>>>
>>> 2.  Agreed value insurance is offered for collectible, classic, or
>>> antique cars.  This is similar to stated value insurance, in that 
>>> there
>>> is a particular valuation placed on the vehicle at the time the
>>> insurance policy is issued.  The policy will then pay, in the event 
>>> of
>>> loss, the lesser of (1) the agreed value, or (2) actual cost of 
>>> repair.
>>>
>>> Agreed value policies typically have significant restrictions on 
>>> use,
>>> including a miles driven per year restriction, storage restriction
>>> (locked storage facility, indoor storage are usual requirements), 
>>> driven
>>> only to show events and so on.
>>>
>>> 3.  Insurance agents often misunderstand or misrepresent the
>>> limitations, benefits, and advantages of the two kinds of policies.  
>>> In
>>> particular, they often misconstrue, and communicate incorrectly to
>>> buyers, that stated value insurance will pay the amount stated in 
>>> the
>>> policy.  This appears not to be true.
>>>
>>> For most of us, it would seem that stated value insurance offers no
>>> valuation advantage, and agreed value insurance has serious 
>>> limitations
>>> for those who use their vehicles outside the severe limitations 
>>> allowed
>>> (though if the vehicle is used within the restrictions, then one 
>>> should
>>> expect to receive the agreed value in the event of loss).
>>>
>>> Bottom line:  Be very careful in buying insurance to be sure you are
>>> getting what you need and expect.
>>>
>>> I undertook this investigation because I had been told by my 
>>> insurance
>>> agent (AAA), that I could not get a policy that would pay more than 
>>> the
>>> underwriter's valuation for my camper, even with appraisals.  It 
>>> seems
>>> that I can, but with restrictions on use.  I will be looking now for 
>>> an
>>> agreed value policy, but with restrictions I can live with (for 
>>> example,
>>> I could live with 12 or 15k miles maximum driving per year, and I 
>>> could
>>> store my camper in a locked facility, but I could not live with 5K, 
>>> and
>>> I could not live with driving it only to events.  Hell, I haven't 
>>> been
>>> (and don't expect to ever go) to an event yet).
>>>
>>> David McNeely
>>>
>>> David McNeely