for sure David, if there's a leak at all in a critical system like the
cooling system .......
left unfixed, you don't know what will happen, or when .........it would be
a van you couldn't trust really ..
so ...........good choice on getting the issue addressed properly !

I've only seen two kinds of heads on waterboxers, VW ones, and AMC ones.
It's very easy to see which is which.  If you see a VW part number.......
and a round ( about the size of a quarter ) VW symbol..............that's a
VW head.

the AMC ones have no markings or part numbers, other than the plane 'amc'
letters in upper case, on the top of the head......near where the intake
manifold bolts on.

I wouldn't say it was paranoid - I'd say ' prudent.'

Scott
www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <mcneely4@cox.net>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
Cc: <mcneely4@COX.NET>; <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: Re: head gaskets

> Scott, and all others who have responded -- thanks a great deal for all
> the advice and even commiseration.
>
> Looks like I will almost certainly have the seals done.  If the heads need
> other work, we'll know that when we get them off.  I don't know whether
> they are the original VW heads, or if they have been replaced (as part of
> the longblock that was installed).  If so, it would have been 30K and
> seven years ago.  The van isn't here now, it's at Daryl's Hobby Shop, in
> Norman, Oklahoma (30 miles from me).  Daryl is a great guy who has helped
> me with several problems that I thought were beyond me.  I trust him, and
> will have him do the work.  If they do need other work, we'll decide
> whether to mill them or replace them, based on condition.
>
> I may be paranoid, but to me if something leaks, it needs fixed.  When it
> was under 10 F here (actually got down to 5 F), the leak on startup was
> significant -- or to me it was.  It made a nice puddle on the driveway.
> It did quit, after the engine warmed up (or the leakage was evaporating
> and not evident?), and on the drive over to Daryl's, it did not lose
> enough coolant to be a problem (overflow bucket still above minimum mark).
> I take the camper on long jaunts.  I only drive it locally if I am
> checking something out -- otherwise, it's out to distant campsites.  I
> have no desire to get stuck.  Our Christmas trip to Big Bend State Natural
> Area has now become a trip to Big Bend National Park and tent camping with
> our Prius (still remote, but less so, and we will at least be able to
> access nice places without high clearance), because I won't take this
> thing on the road or to remote locations, and Daryl can't get to it till
> after Christmas.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone, and especially to Scott.
>
> David McNeely
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Scott Daniel  - Turbovans wrote:
>
>> Dave, they are entirely fixable.
>> I can't even count how many waterboxer heads I've done.
>>
>> 'new heads' is not 'the solution' necessarily .......
>> but they do need to be VW brand good heads, with no cracks between the
>> valve seats, a decent rubber gasket surface, good exhaust valves, good
>> guides, and a proper valve job, along with very careful workmanship
>> .......
>> And they can work out just fine.
>>
>> if there is so much worry, just do the side that seems the worst, and see
>> how that goes.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mcneely" To: Sent: Thursday,
>> December 17, 2009 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: head gaskets
>>
>>
>>> Well, finding the history of the rebuild might be difficult.  As I
>>> mentioned, the paperwork I have shows a longblock, does not show source.
>>> This thing only started leaking when cold weather arrived.  Some seem to
>>> think that is simply a chronic state with waterboxers, and they
>>> evidently just let it go.  I fear finding myself out in the back of
>>> nowhere, and the seals let go and I lose the coolant.  But from what you
>>> say, I might not have any better luck if I do the seals, or even if I
>>> get new heads.  So, what should be done with such a beast?  David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:30 AM, B Feddish wrote:
>>>
>>>> My apology if I missed that. Leaky heads at only 30K eh?  I think the
>>>> experts need to chime in here. You need to find out "why" they are
>>>> leaking
>>>> at only 30K. Was it a crappy rebuild, did the engine overheat, etc.
>>>> Maybe it
>>>> was just a bad seal and a new gasket will fix it for years. These
>>>> might only
>>>> be questions to answer once the heads were off or maybe possibly
>>>> finding the
>>>> history of the rebuild. Was it just a ring job and new gaskets or a
>>>> complete
>>>> rebuild with new pistons, heads, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] Sent: Thursday,
>>>> December 17, 2009 10:14 AM
>>>> To: bfeddish@netreach.net
>>>> Cc: mcneely4@COX.NET; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: RE: head gaskets
>>>>
>>>> Well, I did say that the engine only has 30K miles on a rebuild,
>>>> according
>>>> to paperwork I got when I bought the beast last spring.  I have no
>>>> idea
>>>> where the rebuild came from (paperwork just states under "parts" that
>>>> a
>>>> "longblock engine replacement" was a part of the work done).
>>>>
>>>> So, you are saying either new heads or mill these, at minimum?
>>>> thanks, Dave
>>>> Mc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:44 AM, B Feddish wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You haven't mentioned how many miles were on this motor, that may
>>>>> factor in
>>>>> as to what you want to do.  Taking the heads off is a big job whether
>>>>> you do
>>>>> it or somebody else does it. If I were to go that far there is no way
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> just slap a new rubber gasket and some sealant in there and put it
>>>>> all back
>>>>> together. This is of course if there are allot of miles on the
>>>>> engine. I
>>>>> would at least have the heads done while they were out our better yet
>>>>> put on
>>>>> some new ones. Yeah, the heads are expensive but so is taking them
>>>>> off in
>>>>> terms of time.  Then again if you are budget conscious and you are
>>>>> going to
>>>>> do the job yourself then at least do the JB Weld thingy with the
>>>>> heads while
>>>>> they are out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Dave Mcneely
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:22 AM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>> Subject: Re: head gaskets
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I should do the head gaskets, or not?  It's very expensive, but I
>>>>> want a
>>>>> reliable van (or no van at all).  Thanks, Dave Mc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM, mark drillock wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a typical failure mode. Leaks in cold weather, stops when
>>>>>> warmed up, leaks worse as temps drop. May go on this way for years
>>>>>> depending on you and it. Mine has. On more than one van.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>>>> So, I've done about everything I thought I should to make my '91
>>>>>>> camper as reliable as it could be, including lots of cooling system
>>>>>>> fixes.
>>>>>>> Just replaced all coolant hoses, since so many think that should be
>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>> .......
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Head gaskets are leaking. The question: I find it difficult to
>>>>>>> think the gaskets just all of a sudden turned loose (I'd even
>>>>>>> removed the tins to look for evidence of leaks when I did the
>>>>>>> hoses, and saw none).
>>>>>>> Could it be that the heads and or gaskets were already loose or
>>>>>>> whatever, and the cold weather made them looser and so they leak?
>>>>>>> If I run the engine a little while, the leaks dry up, suggesting to
>>>>>>> me that temperature plays a role -- expansion, contraction ..... .
>>>>>>> So, could the heads be sealed better even with the temperature
>>>>>>> difference between normal fall temps and the quite cold temps we've
>>>>>>> had lately? I'm just trying to understand why this suddenly showed
>>>>>>> up, and wonder if it being coincident with the cold weather is more
>>>>>>> than a coincidence.