Oh, I agree that newer is generally better.

Take for example my new Jeep. It has a stability control system that amazes
me. I can be driving down a rain soaked road, hit a puddle of water that
would pull me to the right in any other car but the Jeep just sails right
through. I'm a technical person and understand what is going on in the
background - the slight attitude change is fed from the gyroscope into the
computer and the computer turns on the left wheel ABS as needed. It's still
amazing.

But doing the jobs I do, I'm surrounded with technology. And I just like old
things which is really why I'm interested in a Vanagon, they are old enough
to interest me. My newest motorcycle is a 92 Harley-Davidson but I ride my
76 BMW more often - it's just a nice old machine. And I understand the
issues with air cooled VWs, I've owned enough of them. And I know that a bus
is under powered, but try driving a 123 body Mercedes 240D with an automatic
transmission! A bus would win a uphill or downhill race every time!

I probably will buy a Vanagon but I'll buy a running one in good shape. I
learned a long time ago that it's cheaper to pay up front than to put
something together unless you live next to a junk yard and are friends with
the owner. I'll also take the info I learned here and buy a set of parts
most likely to fail. That's the real advantage of belonging to a group like
this, pay attention and after a while you assimilate quite a library of
information between your ears. But you also get to participate with your
experiences. It's definitely a win - win.

BTW, I did not buy the new Jeep - the wife insisted and she makes lots more
$$$ than I do. She works in Wisconsin and did not feel good about me
traveling to Wisconsin and back in my old jeep. It was also new in by book,
a 2000 model with only 170,000 miles on the clock.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924

Our Web Sites:
www.kegkits.com
www.stir-plate.com
www.andyshotsauce.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
John Rodgers
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:38 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel

Tom,

I noted your joining the gang here to learn in anticipation of getting a
van. If the AFM is of such significance to you, why not begin from the
outset with the idea of getting a van with a dead engine and  do a
conversion to a Suburu 2.2L or better at the very outset. You would
really have something then. I would never disparage the earlier vans,
but they are from a different era - and they do not perform or ride
anything like a Vanagon. I think the early vans are very cool,
especially the splitties, but man - they don't ride or perform anything
like a Vanagon, and for that difference, I would never harken back to
The Good Old Days for the earlier machines.

John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com

Tom Hargrave wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Your troubleshooting seems you can rule out the mechanical fuel system
> including water in the gas or diesel in the tank. What's left is
electrical.
>
> My real EFI experience is with D-Jet and K-Jet, not L-Jet but I did drag
out
> some books.
>
> Looking at the system drawings, there just isn't much there - there are
two
> temp sensors, the airflow meter which includes one of the temp sensors &
> idle switch, oxygen sensor and an aux air valve for idle. It's much less
> complex than the D-jet systems. Also, nothing in the book I'm looking at
> lists the failure mode you are experiencing for any of the sensors.
> Everything states "runs bad" or "poor fuel economy".
>
> I pulled this quote from my Bosch book "A defective airflow meter usually
> results in hesitation when the engine is under load. A binding or
> mechanically worn airflow meter can also result in sagging power, stalling
> and severe backfiring through the manifold". So, it seems to not be the
> airflow meter.
>
> I'm wondering of you have something grounded, a wiring harness issue or a
> ECU issue? Like I said earlier, maybe someone who works on these systems
all
> the time has the answer, but it's extremely difficult to troubleshoot by
> remote control.
>
> BTW, I don't own a Vanagon. I joined this group to learn with plans to buy
> one, but I'm concerned about the airflow sensors wearing out with no new
> replacements available. I may change my mind and buy a bay window bus with
a
> D-jet system. At least I know enough about D-Jet to understand what I need
> to keep with me to stay on the road "regardless".
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> 256-656-1924
>
> Our Web Sites:
> www.kegkits.com
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.andyshotsauce.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
> Mark Drexler
> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:23 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: FW: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel
>
> Thanks. I guess what I was trying to get at, is that I am getting spark
and
> enough gas for a smooth idle with the afm off. It won't accelerate
> obviously, but can I rule out some causes based on this.
> Once I connect the afm back in, it will idle very rough, and I cannot get
> any rpm increases, even sitting in neutral.
> I am going to check connections on temp sensors, try to adjust the
throttle
> Switch for idle, pull off the fuel hose at the filter, check flow from
fuel
> pump, and replace the fuel filter. Then I am out of ideas.
> Keep em coming.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Tom Hargrave
> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:56 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel
>
> That was my point - but we are getting off subject. The issue is one
lonely
> Vanagon stranded in South Florida.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> 256-656-1924
>
> Our Web Sites:
> www.kegkits.com
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.andyshotsauce.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net]
> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:48 AM
> To: Tom Hargrave
> Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: [VANAGON] STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in
> fuel
>
> But noboby PUT that water in the tank.  It came from the storm, and the
> tanker was removing it.  DMc
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Tom Hargrave wrote:
>
>
>> Not always true - a few years ago I pulled into a service station to
>> fill
>> one of my Mercedes diesels up and there was a big truck stranded in
>> front of
>> the diesel pump. He had just pumped a tank of water.
>>
>> We had a very heavy rain that morning and enough water seeped into the
>> underground tank to raise the water level up past the pickup tube.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom Hargrave
>> 256-656-1924
>>
>> Our Web Sites:
>> www.kegkits.com
>> www.stir-plate.com
>> www.andyshotsauce.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Rob
>> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:45 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel
>>
>> Nobody PUTS water in the gas unless it's sabotage or theft. It does
>> happen but it's not on purpose, storage facilities work to jeep water
>> out of fuel.
>>
>> Rob
>> becida@comcast.net
>>
>> At  1/23/2010 09:18 PM,Zoltan wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with this assumption.  It happened to me a few times when on
>>> the
>>> road.  The freeway side gas stations can do it to you.  Once you are
>>> gone,
>>> you're on your own.  Towing, waiting for a garage to open until
>>> Monday,
>>> sleeping in the van at a weird place, etc.  Maybe some fuel additive
>>> would
>>> solve it.
>>> The gas stations are allowed to put in a certain amount of water into
>>> their
>>> tank, depending on how much alcohol there is in it, I think.
>>> Zoltan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Allan Streib" To: Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mark Drexler  writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Now just fueled up, and will start, but spits and burps, and can't
>>>>> get
>>>>> all cylinders firing on start up. Feels like a lack of fuel
>>>>> delivery
>>>>> to me.
>>>>>
>>>> When running problems appear suddenly after a fuel fill, you have to
>>>> consider that maybe you got a batch of dirty or watery fuel.  I
>>>> think
>>>> this is uncommon these days, but it can happen.
>>>>
>>>> Allan
>>>> --
>>>> 1991 Vanagon GL
>>>>
>
>
>