

| Subject: | Re: VERBOSE: fuel pump, ethanol, cavitation |
| From: | mordo |
| Date: | Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:21:31 -0400 |
Update on my previously discussed problem: The fuel pump continues to run quietly. While it has not been nearly as hot as when the original problem of dying while idling (as in stop-and-go traffic), I am still experiencing the stalling at idle. The engine otherwise runs fine. Start up is a bit rough and sometimes requires that I blip the throttle. So, my list of items to check in troubleshooting: 1. throttle switch 2. idle control valve 3. O2 sensor 4. fuel pressure I will appreciate any thoughts on the above list of items. Am I neglecting anything? cheers, mordo On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 8:13 AM, mordo <helmut.blong@gmail.com> wrote: > I have had the same experience about four years ago, Mike and here is why I > don't think it is a simple particulate blocking the pump issue: > > When previously experiencing the filthy tank debris clogging the pump, the > engine would bog down under load, particularly accelerating up hills. This > makes sense when you consider the sludge will wash down toward the outlet > and into the line. When one is just tooling along on level roads, perhaps > the sludge settles back down away from the outlet. The only thing that made > me suspicious of sludge blocking the pump was the gas from the filter > appeared to be a bit rusty. I could not shake any debris out of the pump's > filter screen, couldn't see any. > > The other factor that I may not have mentioned is that engine is running a > bit more roughly than previously; sputtering a tad off the line, idling a > bit more roughly. > > FWIW, I've driven about 60 miles since Saturday and have not had the > whining and have not had it die at idle. Go figure. > > cheers, > > On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote: > >> It may be fine in all other respects, and still be cavitating or >> restricted enough to be quite noisy. >> I just removed my pump for cleaning and hose/clamp replacements (thanks >> for the replacement pump, Craig C!), and when I shook out the remaining fuel >> into a rag, I couldn't believe the amount of crap caught in the pump's >> internal pre-filter screen. I never even knew that it had a screen in the >> large inlet side, but it makes sense. It's fairly fine, and only very small >> particles will pass thru to get caught in the filter, which is after the >> pump. The pre-filter pump was eliminated by VW, possibly due to noisy pump >> operation once restricted due to particles. >> You can run it polarity-reversed to flush it out backwards through a rag >> into a bucket. Craig told me (at the Terryville show today!) that he uses >> denatured alcohol for this, so it leaves things clean and dry for storage of >> a spare pump. It's also less explosive than gasoline! >> >> Mike B. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "mordo" <helmut.blong@GMAIL.COM> >> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:39 PM >> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> Subject: VERBOSE: fuel pump, ethanol, cavitation >> >> >> I'd be willing to accept that, Jake except that it does not exhibit the >>> other symptoms of being choked. Like I said, it doesn't bog down when you >>> mash the pedal. Previously when my tank was expelling crud, I would lose >>> power when I accelerated up hill or to pass. >>> >>> I'm certainly going to pull the tank when I empty it. I have an original >>> spare that is good shape. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Jake de Villiers < >>> crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> It sounds like your tank outlet is restricted. That 'laminate trimmer' >>>> noise only comes from lack of volume at the inlet side of the pump. >>>> >>>> Do as Scott suggests and run your pump from a hose into a gas can to see >>>> if >>>> that makes a difference. >>>> >>>> If the noise goes away, its time to replace the gas tank. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 7:38 AM, mordo <helmut.blong@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> O, List, >>>>> >>>>> I've been reading a lot of the discussion both here and on the Samba >>>>> about >>>>> fuel pump cavitation since I had a discouraging failure en route to the >>>>> Outer Banks Saturday a week ago. I'd appreciate the collective wisdom >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> list on this incident. >>>>> >>>>> Van is generally running very well tho' I was a bit apprehensive of my >>>>> instrument cluster after tearing the foil thus worried that any warning >>>>> signs won't be reported. So, traffic from Springfield, VA on 95S was >>>>> hateful >>>>> as usual and that day it was dreadful all the way to 295 interchange >>>>> near >>>>> Richmond. Dodged the back up on 64E by going down to 460E, wade through >>>>> Norfolk area and on to NC 168/158 and am shortly mired in a hellish, 20 >>>>> mile >>>>> debacle of too many damned vehicles all going to the same place. And, >>>>> it's >>>>> hot, hot, hot, approximately 99F "real feel" that day and the rad fan >>>>> is >>>>> cycling on and off regularly and occasionally up to high speed (that's >>>>> a >>>>> surprising sound). Stop and go, creeping, crawling with the AC on. >>>>> About >>>>> four miles before the bridge over the Currituck Sound, I hear what I >>>>> interpret is a wheezing sound from the cooling system and the engine >>>>> sputters to a stop. We pull over onto a grassy verge and curse the gods >>>>> for >>>>> their cruelty. I try starting again and it kicks over, runs momentarily >>>>> and >>>>> the sputters to a stop again. Wheezing sound was present again. >>>>> >>>>> After hassling with an ESL support operator at my motor club, I get in >>>>> to >>>>> tell the operator the VIN. I crank it over again just for kicks and it >>>>> starts and runs normally. So, I say, "Never mind, it's running again. >>>>> I'll >>>>> call if I need a tow." We drove about 200 yards and kaput. Try to start >>>>> again and it sputters and coughs and kaput. And then the starter won't >>>>> crank >>>>> over. Wheezing sound again. After a long, hot ride in the tow truck cab >>>>> (three people plus driver) we are at our destination and I ignore the >>>>> van >>>>> in >>>>> favor of several anodyne adult beverages. >>>>> >>>>> Next day, I start it and run it and discern that the wheezing is a >>>>> noisy, >>>>> whining fuel pump. It was an aftermarket pump, about three years old so >>>>> I'm >>>>> willing to believe that it is failing. So, I order a replacement from >>>>> BusDepot. Replace it and the filter. The old filter bled rusty-looking >>>>> fuel."Hrmmm," says I. Starts rough but eventually runs fine. On the way >>>>> back >>>>> to Baltimore, I start to get the whining fuel pump sound again and >>>>> occasionally, idling at stop lights, the engine quits. Restarts >>>>> normally >>>>> and >>>>> runs well at high speed, pulls strong all the way to Baltimore. So, to >>>>> summarize: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1. Hot ambient temps >>>>> 2. fill up in southern Virginia with 10% ethanol fuel >>>>> 3. fine rust in fuel filter before replacement >>>>> 4. new Bosch pump still have whining sound >>>>> 5. Engine runs well under load, acceleration normal >>>>> 6. Sputters at hot idle and sometimes quits >>>>> 7. cleaned the tank three or four years ago >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have read of the theory that ethanol-blended gasoline is responsible >>>>> for >>>>> cavitation, its specific gravity being lower than straight gasoline. >>>>> I've >>>>> read the theory that the generic Bosch pump is too fast for gasohol and >>>>> that >>>>> a resistor in line on the pump is the answer. I have experienced the >>>>> effects >>>>> of cruddy fuel choking the fuel pump and my experience was inconsistent >>>>> with >>>>> previous misadventures. That usually presented as choking and losing >>>>> power >>>>> under load. >>>>> >>>>> What do you all think is the most likely culprit? I was under the >>>>> impression >>>>> that most fuel around the mid Atlantic was 10% ethanol but perhaps I am >>>>> mistaken. I am suspicious of my fuel pressure regulator - haven't >>>>> tested >>>>> fuel pressure in a couple of years. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> -- >>>>> mordo >>>>> 1990 Carat >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jake >>>> >>>> 1984 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX 'The Grey Van' >>>> 1986 Westy Weekender/2.5 SOHC Suby 'Dixie' >>>> >>>> Crescent Beach, BC >>>> >>>> www.thebassspa.com >>>> www.crescentbeachguitar.com >>>> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> mordo >>> 1990 Carat >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mordo >>> 1990 Carat >>> >> >> > > > -- > mordo > 1990 Carat > -- mordo 1990 Carat
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