the sky is falling!  fear-mongering.  Bull.

But if you're really concerned;

Coat the pipes inside and out with black POR-15........

Solder on braided bonding straps; bond everything to chassis ground - no
potential, no current flow.

next subject..............

Mike B.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ken Wilford" <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:16 PM
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Subject:      Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes Endanger Engines

>  Well said Scott,
> I am so tired of the "I just invented a problem, but don't worry I have
> the solution" mindset that seems to be prevalent in our day.  Seems to
> have gained steam since the ozone layer, Y2K, Bird Flu, Swine Flu,
> Global Warming, and now stainless steel coolant pipes.  I feel
> privileged just to be alive since all of the previous things were
> supposed to kill me and I have survived them all!  I guess Vanagons will
> survive stainless steel coolant pipes as well although that may be an
> "inconvenient truth" for some.  :-)
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
> Phone: 856-327-4936
> Fax: 856-327-2242
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2010 2:54 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> ( well now I see it's on several lists separately .
>> I did 'suburu vanagon' already ..and I'll do vanagongerry this time -
>> it's
>> longish. )
>>
>> Well..
>> sure ..there is 'some' galvanic 'battery' affect with using stainless
>> steel
>> coolant pipes.
>> 'some' ..as in 'not much really' I'd say.
>>
>> I'd say ground  your stainless pipes with braided grounding strap  if
>> you're
>> that worried about it
>> I'll read the RJES piece...and I suspect their water might be harder than
>> ours.
>>
>> I'll say this.....living in the western US - Ca, OR, and Wa and
>> working on
>> cars full, full time for decades .......I have used this coolant mixture
>> with extreme success, and zero corrosion on many cars...
>> I mix a quality anti-frz 50/50 with clean tap water ..
>> and I add a bit of machinist's cutting oil ..a water soluble oil that
>> makes
>> a great rust inhibutor and water pump lubricant. I have used this
>> mixture in
>> litterally hundreds of cars and vanagons ..
>> nary a problem with corrosion ever. ..or new corrosion let's say.
>>
>> heck, I have even put in my clever little mixture on a 2.1 wbxr
>> vanagon with
>> seepig outer rubber water gasekts on one head ......and a touch of
>> Bars Leak
>> ..and that van was fine for quite a while after that.
>>
>> I think this notion that all vanagons with stainless main coolant
>> pipes are
>> doomed ..
>> and that it's a near emergency and everyone needs to rip those out right
>> away ..
>> is silly actually.
>> Or strongly overstated let's say.
>>
>> By far ....the Main Factor in any cooling system corrosion is not
>> having a
>> good batch of fresh high quality coolant in it ...and changing it
>> regularily
>> ..
>> on our old vans, I'd say once a year isn't too often, since you never
>> it all
>> out anyway.
>>
>> Personally ...I think what you DO on a van is far more important than
>> what
>> you USE on it ..
>> you do need to use quality parts and fluids , of course..
>> but it's the 'careful picky care' ...
>> the psychic healing factor ..
>> the actually fussing over every detail of corrosion you find anywhere ..
>> that's how you take care of a vanagon cooling system ..and I swear that
>> water soluble oil works superbly  ...like a small coffee cupfull in the
>> entire system.
>>
>> There is no engine corrosion crisis in the US from using stainless main
>> coolant pipes that I can tell, at all.
>> The battery/galvanic affect is minimal in my expereince, at least here in
>> the Western US.
>>
>> we're doomed !  we're doomed ! Rip out all stainless cooling system pipes
>> immediately !
>>
>> lol.   ( but I do want to read the RJES piece...I respect the guy a
>> lot. -
>> thanks for posting it )
>> Scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>> extra -
>> since it's fridae ....ever read Richard Back's 'Illusions' I think is the
>> name of the book ...?
>> it's about a guy whise  stunt biplane never gets bugs on it, never
>> runs out
>> of fuel.
>> The point of the book is 'magic manifestation' ...
>> that through sheer mental power or good karma or whatever ..........your
>> machinery can do very well...
>> of course things get dirty and fuel runs out , and engine oil gets dirty
>> with time, etc...
>> but .....some people have more problems than other people do.  The
>> 'psychic
>> healing' factor is real.
>> You clean and polish your van inside and out ...it will run better.
>> You really understand the systems on it and you take care of them with
>> methods that work for you ...
>> you manifest successful vanagon operation .......just because you do.  Or
>> maybe it's just because you are super tuned into every nuance of any
>> system
>> ...in this case cooling system. You notice immediately if anything is
>> different or needs attention, and you give it that attention.
>>   The book is a good read, particularily for those who love aviation..
>> Mabye all people can't do it...but some people actually make things last
>> well, and work well, and in addition to the adjustments, parts and fluids
>> they do on it .....there is some 'mental force or intention' that can
>> make
>> your cooling system nearly never corrode - that's not to say you can
>> abuse
>> it ...but just through understanding, some good workmansihp and decent
>> materials used .....very corrosion free operation is possible, and your
>> intention that that's how it's going to be.
>>  Ever notice ......you let someone borrow your van or car that you are
>> really into and love and have working very well. Somehow, when you get it
>> back ...it is different.  Subtly, but different somehow yet.
>> That's because they are not 'conducting' the vehicle to work smoothly and
>> nicely like you are without you realizing it.  The affect is real.
>> Subtle,
>> but real.  People that are deeply mentally  and psychiclly simpatico with
>> their machinery won't really have much corrosion going on, even with
>> stainless main pipes.
>> And of course they have to do mostly the right thing in mantaining it
>> ..of
>> course ! ..but there is some subtle 'thing' that is 'more' than just the
>> parts or fluids you put in it.  It's how you deeply understand it and
>> really
>> relate to it, let's say.
>>
>> Ciao,
>> scott
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Derek Drew
>>  To: Syncro@yahoogroups.com ; VANAGON@GERRY.VANAGON.COM ;
>> subaruvanagon@yahoogroups.com
>>  Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:51 AM
>>  Subject: [subaruvanagon] Stainless Coolant Pipes Endanger Engines
>>
>>
>>
>>  It has become very common in Vanagon circles for owners to change
>>  their coolant pipes to stainless steel designs.
>>
>>  Terry K introduced one of the first stainless steel pipes in North
>>  America, and other thinner walled pipes were later introduced from
>>  Europe and elsewhere. Now, many vendors offer stainless pipes, and
>>  the plastic pipes that seemed so stupid to us because they fail are
>>  becoming NLA (no longer available).
>>
>>  An argument came to my attention this week at RJES that the use of
>>  stainless steel for coolant pipes is a kind of an idiot thing to
>>  do..... a kind of automotive-engineering-101-no-no.
>>
>>  Apparently, engine coolant tends to be conductive enough that even
>>  though the stainless pipes are not touching at either end, the
>>  stainless pipes can create a battery (galvanic corrosion) and cause
>>  the engine to start turning into a more dust like material over time.
>>
>>  I am sure that many of you have seen old transmissions with magnesium
>>  housings that mysteriously turned to dust on the top, apparently
>>  because of a battery set up between the magnesium and the aluminum
>> engines.
>>
>>  Theoretically, the use of stainless steel pipes could be causing our
>>  engines to be changing this way as well, through galvanic electricity
>>  passed through the engine coolant.
>>
>>  This is either an emergency, as potentially now thousands of Vanagons
>>  in North America with stainless coolant pipes must now have the pipes
>>  removed, or it is a potential problem that we can manage by attention
>>  to the issue from our more capable automotive engineers.
>>
>>  If there is an alternative to ripping the pipes out of all our vans,
>>  it seems that help might be found in one or more of the following:
>>
>>  a) methods to alter the chemistry of the coolant to make it less
>>  conductive, less electrolyte?, less acidic? such as potentially
>>  adding Schaeffer's Clean and Cool:
>>  http://www.schaefferoil.com/specialty/258_coolant_additive.html
>>
>>  b) placement of zinc sacrificial anodes in such a way as to protect
>>  the engine,
>>
>>  c) take steps to make sure there are no electrical contacts
>>  (uninsulated contacts) between the stainless pipes and the metal of
>>  the vehicle body or any metal part, or
>>
>>  c) just poo poo the issue and announce that we have not seen engines
>>  degraded yet due to the use of these pipes.
>>
>>  I noticed that the Schaefferoil is available in various sizes,
>>  including 55 gallon drums, which I imagine might be something we
>>  could order in advance of van meetings as a draw to attend, and a
>>  communal religious experience of drinking of the 55 gallon drum for
>> initiates.
>>
>>  It remains to be discussed how realistic the claims might be that
>>  this stuff can stop galvanic corrosion through the coolant water so
>>  commentary on that is sought.
>>
>>  Here is Richard's RJES.com alarming and thoughtful text on the
>>  subject that I noticed this week:
>>
>>  http://www.rjes.com/html/material_choice.html
>>
>>  The following Google search query produces more on the topic if
>>  anybody can spend some time in these links:
>>
>>  "engine coolant" conductive galvanic
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Derek Drew
>>  Founder, ConsumerSearch.com
>>  Washington DC / New York
>>  derekdrew@derekmail.com
>>  202-966-7907 (Call the number at left normally)
>>  (alt/cell for diligent calling only): 703-408-1532
>>
>>
>>
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>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Derek Drew" <derekdrew@DEREKMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:51 AM
>> Subject: Stainless Coolant Pipes Endanger Engines
>>
>>
>>> It has become very common in Vanagon circles for owners to change
>>> their coolant pipes to stainless steel designs.
>>>
>>> Terry K introduced one of the first stainless steel pipes in North
>>> America, and other thinner walled pipes were later introduced from
>>> Europe and elsewhere. Now, many vendors offer stainless pipes, and
>>> the plastic pipes that seemed so stupid to us because they fail are
>>> becoming NLA (no longer available).
>>>
>>> An argument came to my attention this week at RJES that the use of
>>> stainless steel for coolant pipes is a kind of an idiot thing to
>>> do..... a kind of automotive-engineering-101-no-no.
>>>
>>> Apparently, engine coolant tends to be conductive enough that even
>>> though the stainless pipes are not touching at either end, the
>>> stainless pipes can create a battery (galvanic corrosion) and cause
>>> the engine to start turning into a more dust like material over time.
>>>
>>> I am sure that many of you have seen old transmissions with magnesium
>>> housings that mysteriously turned to dust on the top, apparently
>>> because of a battery set up between the magnesium and the aluminum
>>> engines.
>>>
>>> Theoretically, the use of stainless steel pipes could be causing our
>>> engines to be changing this way as well, through galvanic electricity
>>> passed through the engine coolant.
>>>
>>> This is either an emergency, as potentially now thousands of Vanagons
>>> in North America with stainless coolant pipes must now have the pipes
>>> removed, or it is a potential problem that we can manage by attention
>>> to the issue from our more capable automotive engineers.
>>>
>>> If there is an alternative to ripping the pipes out of all our vans,
>>> it seems that help might be found in one or more of the following:
>>>
>>> a) methods to alter the chemistry of the coolant to make it less
>>> conductive, less electrolyte?, less acidic? such as potentially
>>> adding Schaeffer's Clean and Cool:
>>> http://www.schaefferoil.com/specialty/258_coolant_additive.html
>>>
>>> b) placement of zinc sacrificial anodes in such a way as to protect
>>> the engine,
>>>
>>> c) take steps to make sure there are no electrical contacts
>>> (uninsulated contacts) between the stainless pipes and the metal of
>>> the vehicle body or any metal part, or
>>>
>>> c) just poo poo the issue and announce that we have not seen engines
>>> degraded yet due to the use of these pipes.
>>>
>>> I noticed that the Schaefferoil is available in various sizes,
>>> including 55 gallon drums, which I imagine might be something we
>>> could order in advance of van meetings as a draw to attend, and a
>>> communal religious experience of drinking of the 55 gallon drum for
>>> initiates.
>>>
>>> It remains to be discussed how realistic the claims might be that
>>> this stuff can stop galvanic corrosion through the coolant water so
>>> commentary on that is sought.
>>>
>>> Here is Richard's RJES.com alarming and thoughtful text on the
>>> subject that I noticed this week:
>>>
>>> http://www.rjes.com/html/material_choice.html
>>>
>>> The following Google search query produces more on the topic if
>>> anybody can spend some time in these links:
>>>
>>> "engine coolant" conductive galvanic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Derek Drew
>>> Founder, ConsumerSearch.com
>>> Washington DC / New York
>>> derekdrew@derekmail.com
>>> 202-966-7907 (Call the number at left normally)
>>>                 (alt/cell for diligent calling only): 703-408-1532
>>