Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the insights, and the answer is yes, I am very concerned that
there is a further problem beyond the oil viscosity and oil filter brand.

The reason I am going down the path of the oil/filter is because that is the
only thing that has changed in the last few months, besides the van has been
sitting most of the time.  Changed the oil/filter a few months ago, van has
hardly been driven since then, perhaps every 3 weeks for 3 minutes each
time.  Then a couple of weeks ago I attempted a longer trip and the
light/buzzer came on.  So to be cost efficient, and having heard all of the
previous advice about filter / oil type, I thought this might be a valid
route to pursue.

Not sure if the pressure switch is correct, but I've had this van for over 5
years and the switch has never been changed (and I've never had this under
pressure problem before).

I am familiar with the overfill problem, since years ago the light/buzzer
came up on long uphills, so I had read up on the problem at that time.  The
only related overfill suspicion in that the dipstick tube is loose, and
sometimes moves up a bit.  Of course if the tube is up, then the oil level
would show lower than it is, and thus cause overfill.  But I know about this
problem, and always make sure to push it down to seat it correctly.  The oil
change I just did last week to go to the 20W50 demonstrated there is no
problem here, didn't change the filter, but adding 4 quarts put the level
exactly between the 2 marks so I think the dipstick is working.

A couple of weeks ago, I read about the debris / sludge problem clogging the
screen.  Yes, but I have no way to check for this (that I know of) except
the oil pressure test.  This engine has been pretty clean.

I am going to try the Mann filter sitting on the workbench and try some test
drives.  Again because in this case the only thing that changed was an
oil/filter change, these are pretty low cost things to try.
I don't have a oil pressure gauge, that will be the next step, along with
proper debug.

And no, I have not at all concluded that this oil type / filter are the
problem, we never know, it could be some other problem that is completely a
coincidence that it is associated with the recent oil/filter change.

Roland

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Roland <syncronicity1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dennis,
>
> Thanks for the insights, and the answer is yes, I am very concerned that
> there is a further problem beyond the oil viscosity and oil filter brand.
>
> The reason I am going down the path of the oil/filter is because that is
> the only thing that has changed in the last few months, besides the van has
> been sitting most of the time.  Changed the oil/filter a few months ago, van
> has hardly been driven since then, perhaps every 3 weeks for 3 minutes each
> time.  Then a couple of weeks ago I attempted a longer trip and the
> light/buzzer came on.  So to be cost efficient, and having heard all of the
> previous advice about filter / oil type, I thought this might be a valid
> route to pursue.
>
> Not sure if the pressure switch is correct, but I've had this van for over
> 5 years and the switch has never been changed (and I've never had this under
> pressure problem before).
>
> I am familiar with the overfill problem, since years ago the light/buzzer
> came up on long uphills, so I had read up on the problem at that time.  The
> only related overfill suspicion in that the dipstick tube is loose, and
> sometimes moves up a bit.  Of course if the tube is up, then the oil level
> would show lower than it is, and thus cause overfill.  But I know about this
> problem, and always make sure to push it down to seat it correctly.  The oil
> change I just did last week to go to the 20W50 demonstrated there is no
> problem here, didn't change the filter, but adding 4 quarts put the level
> exactly between the 2 marks so I think the dipstick is working.
>
> A couple of weeks ago, I read about the debris / sludge problem clogging
> the screen.  Yes, but I have no way to check for this (that I know of)
> except the oil pressure test.  This engine has been pretty clean.
>
> I am going to try the Mann filter sitting on the workbench and try some
> test drives.  Again because in this case the only thing that changed was an
> oil/filter change, these are pretty low cost things to try.
> I don't have a oil pressure gauge, that will be the next step, along with
> proper debug.
>
> And no, I have not at all concluded that this oil type / filter are the
> problem, we never know, it could be some other problem that is completely a
> coincidence that it is associated with the recent oil/filter change.
>
> Roland
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> We need to kill this myth about Mann or Mahle filters being a fix for the
>> oil pressure buzzer syndrome. The oil buzzer is operated by the high (.8
>> bar/11.3 psi) switch. This switch closes when oil pressure is sufficient.
>> If the switch is not closed when the engine is above ~2,000 rpm you will
>> get
>> the light and buzzer. The light/buzzer will remain on until this switch
>> closes or you switch off the ignition.  Now since you are OK at start up
>> your wiring and buzzer board are most likely good. So what happens after
>> few
>> minutes is that your engine is having trouble maintaining oil pressure or
>> you have the wrong switch in place. As for the filter, the high pressure
>> switch is between the pump and filter, not after. So the only thing a
>> filter
>> can do to stop the buzzer is to be more restrictive which will actually
>> reduce flow to the engine. Now here are the things to check/test:
>>
>> Do you have the correct switch installed? Most parts books and ETKA are
>> confusing here. Most water cooled VW use a 1.8 bar switch. This just won't
>> work. Easy check! If your switch is white it is the wrong one.
>> Oil viscosity-level. Well you say 20w-50, that is fine. Did you have the
>> temptation to overfill?  The top mark on the dipstick is the full mark. It
>> is the maximum, do exceed no matter what mark and for the Waterboxer it is
>> really overfilled. Oil change with filter, 4.5 quarts is plenty.
>>
>> Is the engine loaded with sludge and other deposits? These can get sucked
>> down and into the suction inlet screen. Unfortunately for Waterboxer this
>> usually means teardown.
>>
>> A healthy engine should be able to get close to 10 psi/1,000 rpm.  There
>> will be times when it will not. But if you can't maintain 11.3 at 2000 you
>> have a problem.  Test the oil pressure with a gauge.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Roland
>> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:32 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Oil pressure light comes on after about 7 minutes.
>>
>> Well, this is follow up from my post a few days ago (below).
>>
>> So, last weekend I drained and refilled with 20W50.  I thought all was
>> going
>> to be good, went a good long distance on the test drive (to where my son
>> is
>> working at the christmas tree "store" in the mall parking lot).  All was
>> well, but then suddenly on the way home the oil light/buzzer came on
>> again.
>> But this time it took much longer, maybe 10-15 minutes.  Once it was on,
>> it
>> behaved like before, kind of on-and-off depending on driving conditions.
>>
>> So I got a Mann filter, haven't installed it yet.
>>
>> And then an urgent trip came up today, we have to get a tree, now!  "Ok
>> honey, I'll risk it with the van".  (What we do for our babes is just
>> amazing isn't it.)  So I just took the exact same trip as I mentioned
>> above
>> to the Xmas tree store at the mall and back again.  No oil light / buzzer
>> at
>> all.  Van just sat in the driveway between these 2 trips, maybe the oil
>> rested and matured and is now ready to behave.  Kinda like putting your
>> kid
>> in "timeout".
>>
>> So this is getting puzzling.  I will still put the Mann filter on today
>> and
>> then more extensive test drives tomorrow.
>>
>> Roland
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:21 PM, John Rodgers <inua@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> >  I would drain the oil, install a Mahle or Mann oil filter, refill
>> > with a good brand of 20W50 or 15W50 Mobil One or good diesel 15W40. If
>> > that doesn't fix it, you may have an internal problem, but if things
>> > were good before the oil change, this should probably fix it.
>> >
>> > John Rodgers
>> > Clayartist and Moldmaker
>> > 88'GL VW Bus Driver
>> > Chelsea, ALHttp://www.moldhaus.com
>> >
>> >
>> > On 12/2/2010 6:48 PM, Roland wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello folks,
>> >
>> > Very odd, the oil pressure light comes on after about 7 minutes of
>> driving.
>> > 1989, 2.1 WBX.  It happens every time.  If I let it sit, and get
>> > half-way cool, then it takes about 2-3 minutes for the pressure
>> > light/buzzer to come on.  I think the timing is associated with the
>> > oil warming up.  This has never happened before.  I recently did an
>> > oil change, so maybe...  And I have been doing some studying in the
>> > archives.  So, I had bought one of those package deals at Autozone,
>> > you know for about $0.43 you get 5 quarts of oil and a filter.
>> >
>> > So, first, I took some oil out, it was near the high mark (in the past
>> > I have suffered the oil pressure light on long uphills, so I am
>> > familiar with this problem).  The oil level is now close to the
>> > minimum mark.  Problem remained.
>> >
>> > So it was a Bosch filter, and in the archives this oil filter is
>> > questionable.  So today I replaced it with a Napa Gold, which is
>> > really a Wix, which was recommended, and the problem remains.
>> >
>> > The oil is still golden in color and clear,no sign of chocolate mousse
>> > or contamination.
>> >
>> > When I go downhill, at idle in neutral, the light/buzzer go out after
>> > about
>> > 7-10 seconds.
>> >
>> > The next step I am considering is to get some different oil.  I know I
>> > am being a bad vanagon owner, but I can't even recall what oil or
>> > weight I used, pretty sure it was 40W or close to that.  Probably
>> > Castrol or Pennzoil, just can't recall.  So I am thinking of putting
>> some
>> 20W-50 in.
>> > Am in San Diego, really never drive it below 40 degrees, but this is
>> > not a high temp / high stress problem, we are in the 50s-60s each day.
>> >
>> > I think I have a "frothing oil" problem of some type.  Another post
>> > said that "Castrol GTX 20w-50 is only $13 for 5 quarts at Wally
>> > World", maybe not anymore, but I haven't been there is a while.
>> >
>> > Any comments?  Thank you!
>> >
>> > Roland
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>