The politics thickens. 

Time to take it out of this discussion.

BenT
Mod

On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:26 PM, HotelWestfalia <zolo@FOXINTERNET.NET> wrote:

> The conspiracy theory is the wording to redicule the fact that conspiracy is
> there.  Well, conspiracy is all over all the time.  That is reality and we
> live in it.  It is nothing else, but the works of the ones who are in
> control and working in unison.  The Constitution is a conspiracy of  'We the
> People' to be things done the way we prefer, whether it happens that way or
> not.  Political parties, organizations are united to do the way they prefer.
> In essence they are conspiring.  The word now has the connotation to be
> negative, yet it's nothing but a group agreeing to do the way they like it
> against those who disagree with them.
> Unions organize meetings in secret or openly to benefit their members.  And
> if it's against an other auto maker to stop them dumping world proven,
> succesful vehicles in their turf with their influence in the Congress, and
> they succeed in this deed, that foreign auto maker can not do a thing
> against it if they don't do the same conspiracy better than that union does.
> Those who have been around the world, can tell of all the Mercedes trucks
> that rule the world in most countries, yet you don't see any here.  Only
> recently you see a few Sprinters.  Does anyone think, Mercedes somehow did
> not want this market?  Everybody wants this market.  This market is a dream
> of any manufacturer anywhere in the world.  And it is natural for the local
> powers to stop them in order to protect their own workers and the flow of
> dollars.  Common sense.
> In football one team conspires against an other and they proove it on the
> field.
> Parents conspire against their kids for the benefit of the kids.
> And you can make many examples.
> So, conspiracy is a normal happening.  And yes, it is not always other
> people business to know of it.  And it maybe immoral or even illegal even
> though it maybe for the public's benefit.  See Obamacare.
> We, Vanagon owners conspire here openly against all the evil that may happen
> to our beloved vehicle for our van's and our benefit.
> When a pack of volves conspire to hunt down and deer, it is a proof how much
> it's part of our fabric, our instinct.
> We, the leading animals on this planet, know the best about conspiracy.
> We conspire all the time.
> United we stand, divided we fall.  Our enemies conspire to divide us.
> ETC, etc.
> Long live the Vanagons!
> 
> Zoltan
> (apologies for any mistakes in punctuations)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Schwaia" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
> 
> 
>> Ah yes... good old "conspiracy theory".
>> 
>> Do you really think Toyota wouldn't bring in the Hiace if they believed
>> they
>> could make lots of money off it?
>> 
>> Yeah, right...
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>> Steven Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:09 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
>> 
>> Zoltan's statement still holds true.  Just because Toyota can now afford
>> the
>> big bribes like the rest of the US auto companies
>> doesn't mean that what he said is wrong....
>> 
>> Steven
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Not really... there are relatively simple ways for manufacturers to get
>>> around the "chicken tax".  The most common is to ship incomplete vehicles
>>> and finish the assembly in the USA.  This is not as big of a deal as it
>>> sounds.  Look at the Sprinter.  Do you think Dodge (now Mercedes) is
>> paying
>>> 25% import duty on those vans?  Nope.  They send them as incomplete
>> vehicles
>>> and then add the final bits (usually made in the USA) before sending them
>> on
>>> to their dealers.
>>> 
>>> If Toyota, or any other mfg, believed it was financially viable, they
>> would
>>> do the same.  As a matter of fact, Toyota was one of the first mfg's to
>>> utilize the incomplete vehicle loophole with their small trucks.  They
>> would
>>> ship them to California without the pickup beds.  The beds were made in
>> the
>>> USA and attached at a processing plant in California.  Viola!  A Japanese
>>> made truck without chicken tax...
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> HotelWestfalia
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:33 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
>>> 
>>> Almost anything that was or is not threatening the US vehicle sales was
>>> allowed in with severe restrictions that did not apply to the locals.  We
>>> did not get Vanagons with diesel turbo, or with carburetors either.
>>> The huge success of the HiAce was a serious threat to the local van
>>> manufacturing.  The unions ruled them out.  The local manufacturers
>> treated
>>> the local market exactly as the drug dealers their own turf.
>>> Z
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "J Stewart" <fonman4277@COMCAST.NET>
>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 7:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Just like a Vanagon, but modern..
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > Still do, if you can call it that, the Sienna. More car like than van,
>>> > though. Toyota's first mini van sold in the US (1983?) was cool
>>> > looking,
>>> > it too was Vanagon like only smaller, and even came as a 4X4.
>>> > Mitsubishi
>>> > had a nice looking small van back in the 80's as well.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Jeff Stewart
>>> >
>>> > Sorry, left off the link originally. Here it is:
>>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hiace. According to this, the
>>> > Toyota
>>> > Hiace came in a camper version. Of course, Toyota sold vans in this
>>> > country from long ago. Must be something other than emissions control
>>> that
>>> > kept these from being marketed here.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > mcneely
>>> >
>>> 
>>