No, its not a matter of breaking tap water into the two elements. lol.  Its
not a scam either.  I've watched it work on several vehicles.  As I said,
I'll be getting mine installed soon and will keep you posted on the
gains/losses.  Until then, I'm learning everything I can from him.  He has
his entire place off the grid, and burns hydrogen in his trucks and
generators.

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:

> Is this the system that uses power from your battery to break tap water
> into oxygen and hydrogen then feeds it into your engine?
>
>
>
> If so then it�s a scam. A local guy was building and installing these, he
> even got on the local news.
>
>
>
> Now he doesn�t need to worry about  making money anymore. He gets three
> free meals a day, a choice between three TC channels and all the s%x he can
> stand � he�s in jail.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> *From:* Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] *On Behalf
> Of *robby kilborn
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:52 AM
>
> *To:* vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> *Subject:* Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
> Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>
>
>
> hydrogen...
>
> a few problems..one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution
> system. It would take years to build it. Making it is ...........can be
> problimatic or environmentally difficult ....wik it.and then there's
> storage
> on the vehcile..high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
>
>
> I have only just begun working with a guy who has been building 'on demand'
> fuel cells for the past 8 years.  He is not overly well known amongst
> regular joes, but he is sure known internationally.  This past week, I have
> helped to build and install a few cells in cars, trucks, RV's, rc's.... gas
> and diesels.  There is no need to store hydrogen on site, other than enough
> to keep a steady flow into your combustion chamber.  *This system does not
> replace the need of gasoline or diesel, but it does aid in more complete
> combustion, so the 13% burn for gas or 17% burn for diesel, is more near
> 100% - that is the goal, and with some setting and adjusting, it is
> possible.  Next week, I get my own installed in my Syncro.  I'll keep you
> posted on how it works for me.  Fuel gains for the people who have been in,
> have been around 80%.  That would mean I'll see closer to 500 miles per
> tanks!  Who wants that? lol.  Like I said, its an on demand system that
> does
> not replace the need for your current fuel and you do not store any.  *
> **While 80% may seem optimistic, 100% has been had as well.  Even if only
> 20% occurred, That would exceed 300 miles.
> It is possible to have 100% on demand, but there has to be a way to stop
> the
> flow of Hydrogen to the combustion chamber when you let of the gas.  We're
> working on a solenoid set up that would cut off the flow at once, when the
> accelerator pedal is let up.  Until we can get the car to stop powering
> through, the 100% option is not going to be available.
> Also, it is important to offer this more as a way to reduce emissions than
> to save gas.  Same story, but different attention.  The guy I'm working
> with/learning from, has had to move shop due to harassment from people who
> do not appreciate effort to reduce the demand for fuel.
> As for the obstacles, myths and typical rebuttals about Hydrogen systems...
> no point in bringing them up here.  This works.  Its proven.  End of story.
>  I just haven't earned mine yet.
>
> Is it worth it for you?
> What is your current mileage?  I get between 250 and 280 per 18G tank.  I
> do
> a lot of long trips.
> Using 250 as a base average:
> 10% = + 25 miles
> 20% = + 50 miles
> 25% = + 62.5 miles
> 50% = + 125 miles
> 75% = + 187.5 miles
> 80% = + 2o0 miles
> 90% = + 225 miles
> 100% = + 250 miles
> *
> *
> Toss that around in your head awhile.  If you're interested in one and want
> more information, stay in touch.  I'll keep and honest and transparent log
> about what I'm doing and what I'm getting as results.  I will be installing
> several as I make my way across and around the US between now and July.
>
> ***
> *
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
> > re
> >
> > Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
> >
> > Perhaps if all cars on the planet suddenly switched over to that in a
> year
> > or two ..
> > What I think is likely is ..
> > that Asian countires, India etc ..
> > will be driving fairly ordinary cars for a while.....they're still
> working
> > hard on getting millions of new cars to the masses, and not super high
> tech
> > hybird ones too much ..
> > so lots of fossile fuel will still be burned on the planet for a while...
> > as they work harder to get more of the juice out of the ground ..
> > while switch to pure electric cars or very effecient gas/diesel/hybrids
> ..
> >  I really don't think it's going to get to where
> > cars are so super effecient they have to charge 25 times as much for a
> > gallon of gas ..
> >  man ..don't get me started..
> > the sheer incredible amounts of gas and diesel and JP-4 that are burned
> > every second on this planet, 24/7 , 365 days a year ....cars, planes,
> trains
> > and ships ...
> > there is so much burning going on it's silly ..
> > and there are still millions of people in Mongolia, or the middle east or
> > say ....india ..that they now want their car that they never had before.
> > and 'peak oil' ...remember that from about 10 to 15 yrs ago ?
> >
> > Now they get it out of previously abondoned oil fields..
> > and drill deeper and in more odd areas than ever before. And they don't
> > just drill straight down ..
> > they drill miles off to the side ...the amount of oil being extracted is
> > huge and they are still finding
> > new depositis of it.
> > I sure wish they'd stop all that burninf of fossible fuel though.
> > Heck ..just commuting is a shame.
> > and Toll Booths ! ..what a collasal waste of fuel and time ...while the
> > toll takers stand there breating it ..
> > though I imagine they a fresh air source in some toll taker's booths
> ..and
> > they're switching to electroinic toll taking, no stopping.  I knew
> commuting
> > all at the same time was stupid when I was 6.
> >  Pure dyfunctionality.
> > and if it ever does get to where the whole planet is screwed becuase they
> > are still stuck some in the 'age of oil' ....and there isn't enough
> around
> > anymore ..
> > they're gonna look back and see that many many decades worth of oil was
> > just squandered and wasted.
> >
> > hydrogen...
> > a few problems..
> > one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution system. It would
> > take years to build it.
> > Making it is ...........can be problimatic or environmentally difficult
> > ....wik it.
> > and then there's storage on the vehcile..
> > high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
> > I beleive I read there are hydrogen fuel stations for cars in Japan
> > ...maybe it was 20 in the Tokyo area ...
> > and a few in Los Angeles ..and some fuel cell cars in both of those
> places.
> > The real price of a feul cell car currently is about $ 100K ..something
> > like that, perhaps more even.
> >  I think it's getting 'that much' hydrogen is one of the main problems
> > too...if it was really depended on for mass use in transportation.
> >  Drive less for one thing.
> > and ...'the car' is not really BAD..
> > it's how THE CAR IS USED.
> > In the southern oregon city I live near ..
> > a common person , almost, drives a giant pick up truck as a single person
> > 'car.'   Nothing in it either ..
> > it's like it's a life style statment ..who cares if it's 15 mpg max.
> > so if most people drove medium size cars ..
> > say Honda Accord size before they made it 'fat' ( just like Subaru made
> > there near perfect size and selling Outback 'fat' last year ) ....
> > if everyone drove that size car ....normal people , not familes of 9
> ...but
> > that size car, used intellegently, and not spending hours in traffic
> ..the
> > 'car problem' ...emissions, accidents, congestion, and fuel consumption
> > could be easily reduced by half.
> > and ..I'd like to see this.,
> > Thought of this over 10 years ago ...each car has a large digital readout
> > on the back that says how many gallons it burned this month.
> > and near the end of the month you go ' wow...look at that guy ...he's
> only
> > on his 7th gallon this month.
> > And then ....Oh crap ..look at that person in their giant oversize rig
> and
> > too-much-driving habits ...they're on their 70th gallon this month.'
> >  But and the way many  americans are ..they'd strive for the bigger
> number
> > ..many think it is their right to use up all the energy their income will
> > pay for. We do use 1/4 of the worlds energy.......something like that,
> and
> > we are 1/2th of the population .. But that's shifting gradually as people
> > wake up to the new financial reality and conditions I ..I sure hope  !
> lol.
> > And don't even think about places like Lagos Nigeria where the country
> > exports billions in oil yet most of the nation is in total poverty.
> > Somethin' aint right there.
> > And mass transist ..no no no ....always needs to be subsidized at great
> > government expense..
> > isn't as safe as being in your own well-driven car ....and isn't door to
> > door. Just use appropiately sized cars intellegently.  Shouldn't be that
> > hard really.   Before long our gov will privatize with china being the
> > vendor ...and they'll just send each citizen money and vids to watch .
> And
> > we won't burn so much fuel needlessly.
> >
> > just use it wisely is all I say.
> > scott
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "robby kilborn" <
> robbykilborn@GMAIL.COM
> > >
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
> > Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
> >
> >
> >
> >  Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
> >> What about Hydrogen?  Anybody else running hydrogen on their van?  Who
> is
> >> getting good mileage these days?  What are you doing to get it?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Robert Stewart <
> robertmstewart@mac.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>  http://m.wired.com/autopia/2011/01/vw-xl1-concept-car/
> >>>
> >>> Here's an article on the XL1 Concept Car that reaches some insane
> MPG's.
> >>>
> >>> Thought you all might be interested.
> >>>
> >>> Rob
> >>> NY
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> ------------------------------
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