I have seen some articles on this before.  It's very simple.  No storage,
only what is produced is used by the engine.  I don't know much about the
nitty-gritty though.  I'm sure, it's against the oil companies wishes, so
the gov. would not want it yet.
I'm interested to know more of it.
Zoltan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon

> Then explain how it works.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
> robby kilborn
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 6:06 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
> Use
> - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>
>
>
> No, its not a matter of breaking tap water into the two elements. lol.
> Its
> not a scam either.  I've watched it work on several vehicles.  As I said,
> I'll be getting mine installed soon and will keep you posted on the
> gains/losses.  Until then, I'm learning everything I can from him.  He has
> his entire place off the grid, and burns hydrogen in his trucks and
> generators.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>
>> Is this the system that uses power from your battery to break tap water
>> into oxygen and hydrogen then feeds it into your engine?
>>
>>
>>
>> If so then it's a scam. A local guy was building and installing these, he
>> even got on the local news.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now he doesn't need to worry about  making money anymore. He gets three
>> free meals a day, a choice between three TC channels and all the s%x he
> can
>> stand - he's in jail.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] *On
>> Behalf
>> Of *robby kilborn
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:52 AM
>>
>> *To:* vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> *Subject:* Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company
>> May
>> Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>>
>>
>>
>> hydrogen...
>>
>> a few problems..one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution
>> system. It would take years to build it. Making it is ...........can be
>> problimatic or environmentally difficult ....wik it.and then there's
>> storage
>> on the vehcile..high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
>>
>>
>> I have only just begun working with a guy who has been building 'on
> demand'
>> fuel cells for the past 8 years.  He is not overly well known amongst
>> regular joes, but he is sure known internationally.  This past week, I
> have
>> helped to build and install a few cells in cars, trucks, RV's, rc's....
> gas
>> and diesels.  There is no need to store hydrogen on site, other than
> enough
>> to keep a steady flow into your combustion chamber.  *This system does
>> not
>> replace the need of gasoline or diesel, but it does aid in more complete
>> combustion, so the 13% burn for gas or 17% burn for diesel, is more near
>> 100% - that is the goal, and with some setting and adjusting, it is
>> possible.  Next week, I get my own installed in my Syncro.  I'll keep you
>> posted on how it works for me.  Fuel gains for the people who have been
> in,
>> have been around 80%.  That would mean I'll see closer to 500 miles per
>> tanks!  Who wants that? lol.  Like I said, its an on demand system that
>> does
>> not replace the need for your current fuel and you do not store any.  *
>> **While 80% may seem optimistic, 100% has been had as well.  Even if only
>> 20% occurred, That would exceed 300 miles.
>> It is possible to have 100% on demand, but there has to be a way to stop
>> the
>> flow of Hydrogen to the combustion chamber when you let of the gas.
>> We're
>> working on a solenoid set up that would cut off the flow at once, when
>> the
>> accelerator pedal is let up.  Until we can get the car to stop powering
>> through, the 100% option is not going to be available.
>> Also, it is important to offer this more as a way to reduce emissions
>> than
>> to save gas.  Same story, but different attention.  The guy I'm working
>> with/learning from, has had to move shop due to harassment from people
>> who
>> do not appreciate effort to reduce the demand for fuel.
>> As for the obstacles, myths and typical rebuttals about Hydrogen
> systems...
>> no point in bringing them up here.  This works.  Its proven.  End of
> story.
>>  I just haven't earned mine yet.
>>
>> Is it worth it for you?
>> What is your current mileage?  I get between 250 and 280 per 18G tank.  I
>> do
>> a lot of long trips.
>> Using 250 as a base average:
>> 10% = + 25 miles
>> 20% = + 50 miles
>> 25% = + 62.5 miles
>> 50% = + 125 miles
>> 75% = + 187.5 miles
>> 80% = + 2o0 miles
>> 90% = + 225 miles
>> 100% = + 250 miles
>> *
>> *
>> Toss that around in your head awhile.  If you're interested in one and
> want
>> more information, stay in touch.  I'll keep and honest and transparent
>> log
>> about what I'm doing and what I'm getting as results.  I will be
> installing
>> several as I make my way across and around the US between now and July.
>>
>> ***
>> *
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>>
>> > re
>> >
>> > Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
>> >
>> > Perhaps if all cars on the planet suddenly switched over to that in a
>> year
>> > or two ..
>> > What I think is likely is ..
>> > that Asian countires, India etc ..
>> > will be driving fairly ordinary cars for a while.....they're still
>> working
>> > hard on getting millions of new cars to the masses, and not super high
>> tech
>> > hybird ones too much ..
>> > so lots of fossile fuel will still be burned on the planet for a
> while...
>> > as they work harder to get more of the juice out of the ground ..
>> > while switch to pure electric cars or very effecient gas/diesel/hybrids
>> ..
>> >  I really don't think it's going to get to where
>> > cars are so super effecient they have to charge 25 times as much for a
>> > gallon of gas ..
>> >  man ..don't get me started..
>> > the sheer incredible amounts of gas and diesel and JP-4 that are burned
>> > every second on this planet, 24/7 , 365 days a year ....cars, planes,
>> trains
>> > and ships ...
>> > there is so much burning going on it's silly ..
>> > and there are still millions of people in Mongolia, or the middle east
> or
>> > say ....india ..that they now want their car that they never had
>> > before.
>> > and 'peak oil' ...remember that from about 10 to 15 yrs ago ?
>> >
>> > Now they get it out of previously abondoned oil fields..
>> > and drill deeper and in more odd areas than ever before. And they don't
>> > just drill straight down ..
>> > they drill miles off to the side ...the amount of oil being extracted
>> > is
>> > huge and they are still finding
>> > new depositis of it.
>> > I sure wish they'd stop all that burninf of fossible fuel though.
>> > Heck ..just commuting is a shame.
>> > and Toll Booths ! ..what a collasal waste of fuel and time ...while the
>> > toll takers stand there breating it ..
>> > though I imagine they a fresh air source in some toll taker's booths
>> ..and
>> > they're switching to electroinic toll taking, no stopping.  I knew
>> commuting
>> > all at the same time was stupid when I was 6.
>> >  Pure dyfunctionality.
>> > and if it ever does get to where the whole planet is screwed becuase
> they
>> > are still stuck some in the 'age of oil' ....and there isn't enough
>> around
>> > anymore ..
>> > they're gonna look back and see that many many decades worth of oil was
>> > just squandered and wasted.
>> >
>> > hydrogen...
>> > a few problems..
>> > one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution system. It
> would
>> > take years to build it.
>> > Making it is ...........can be problimatic or environmentally difficult
>> > ....wik it.
>> > and then there's storage on the vehcile..
>> > high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
>> > I beleive I read there are hydrogen fuel stations for cars in Japan
>> > ...maybe it was 20 in the Tokyo area ...
>> > and a few in Los Angeles ..and some fuel cell cars in both of those
>> places.
>> > The real price of a feul cell car currently is about $ 100K ..something
>> > like that, perhaps more even.
>> >  I think it's getting 'that much' hydrogen is one of the main problems
>> > too...if it was really depended on for mass use in transportation.
>> >  Drive less for one thing.
>> > and ...'the car' is not really BAD..
>> > it's how THE CAR IS USED.
>> > In the southern oregon city I live near ..
>> > a common person , almost, drives a giant pick up truck as a single
> person
>> > 'car.'   Nothing in it either ..
>> > it's like it's a life style statment ..who cares if it's 15 mpg max.
>> > so if most people drove medium size cars ..
>> > say Honda Accord size before they made it 'fat' ( just like Subaru made
>> > there near perfect size and selling Outback 'fat' last year ) ....
>> > if everyone drove that size car ....normal people , not familes of 9
>> ...but
>> > that size car, used intellegently, and not spending hours in traffic
>> ..the
>> > 'car problem' ...emissions, accidents, congestion, and fuel consumption
>> > could be easily reduced by half.
>> > and ..I'd like to see this.,
>> > Thought of this over 10 years ago ...each car has a large digital
> readout
>> > on the back that says how many gallons it burned this month.
>> > and near the end of the month you go ' wow...look at that guy ...he's
>> only
>> > on his 7th gallon this month.
>> > And then ....Oh crap ..look at that person in their giant oversize rig
>> and
>> > too-much-driving habits ...they're on their 70th gallon this month.'
>> >  But and the way many  americans are ..they'd strive for the bigger
>> number
>> > ..many think it is their right to use up all the energy their income
> will
>> > pay for. We do use 1/4 of the worlds energy.......something like that,
>> and
>> > we are 1/2th of the population .. But that's shifting gradually as
> people
>> > wake up to the new financial reality and conditions I ..I sure hope  !
>> lol.
>> > And don't even think about places like Lagos Nigeria where the country
>> > exports billions in oil yet most of the nation is in total poverty.
>> > Somethin' aint right there.
>> > And mass transist ..no no no ....always needs to be subsidized at great
>> > government expense..
>> > isn't as safe as being in your own well-driven car ....and isn't door
>> > to
>> > door. Just use appropiately sized cars intellegently.  Shouldn't be
>> > that
>> > hard really.   Before long our gov will privatize with china being the
>> > vendor ...and they'll just send each citizen money and vids to watch .
>> And
>> > we won't burn so much fuel needlessly.
>> >
>> > just use it wisely is all I say.
>> > scott
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "robby kilborn" <
>> robbykilborn@GMAIL.COM
>> > >
>> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:20 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company
>> > May
>> > Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
>> >> What about Hydrogen?  Anybody else running hydrogen on their van?  Who
>> is
>> >> getting good mileage these days?  What are you doing to get it?
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Robert Stewart <
>> robertmstewart@mac.com
>> >> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  http://m.wired.com/autopia/2011/01/vw-xl1-concept-car/
>> >>>
>> >>> Here's an article on the XL1 Concept Car that reaches some insane
>> MPG's.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thought you all might be interested.
>> >>>
>> >>> Rob
>> >>> NY
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> ------------------------------
>>
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>
>  _____
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