Friday, please.

BenT

On Jan 29, 2011, at 5:37 PM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET> wrote:

> So, BentT, does additional interest make this a official Vanagon thread or
> do we still wait until Friday?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Tom
>
>
>
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
> HotelWestfalia
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:08 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Hydrogen help for the Vanagons
>
>
>
> I have seen some articles on this before.  It's very simple.  No storage,
> only what is produced is used by the engine.  I don't know much about the
> nitty-gritty though.  I'm sure, it's against the oil companies wishes, so
> the gov. would not want it yet.
> I'm interested to know more of it.
> Zoltan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
> Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>
>
>> Then explain how it works.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
>> robby kilborn
>> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 6:06 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
>> Use
>> - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>>
>>
>>
>> No, its not a matter of breaking tap water into the two elements. lol.
>> Its
>> not a scam either.  I've watched it work on several vehicles.  As I said,
>> I'll be getting mine installed soon and will keep you posted on the
>> gains/losses.  Until then, I'm learning everything I can from him.  He has
>> his entire place off the grid, and burns hydrogen in his trucks and
>> generators.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Is this the system that uses power from your battery to break tap water
>>> into oxygen and hydrogen then feeds it into your engine?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If so then it's a scam. A local guy was building and installing these, he
>>> even got on the local news.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now he doesn't need to worry about  making money anymore. He gets three
>>> free meals a day, a choice between three TC channels and all the s%x he
>> can
>>> stand - he's in jail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] *On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of *robby kilborn
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:52 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company
>>> May
>>> Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hydrogen...
>>>
>>> a few problems..one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution
>>> system. It would take years to build it. Making it is ...........can be
>>> problimatic or environmentally difficult ....wik it.and then there's
>>> storage
>>> on the vehcile..high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have only just begun working with a guy who has been building 'on
>> demand'
>>> fuel cells for the past 8 years.  He is not overly well known amongst
>>> regular joes, but he is sure known internationally.  This past week, I
>> have
>>> helped to build and install a few cells in cars, trucks, RV's, rc's....
>> gas
>>> and diesels.  There is no need to store hydrogen on site, other than
>> enough
>>> to keep a steady flow into your combustion chamber.  *This system does
>>> not
>>> replace the need of gasoline or diesel, but it does aid in more complete
>>> combustion, so the 13% burn for gas or 17% burn for diesel, is more near
>>> 100% - that is the goal, and with some setting and adjusting, it is
>>> possible.  Next week, I get my own installed in my Syncro.  I'll keep you
>>> posted on how it works for me.  Fuel gains for the people who have been
>> in,
>>> have been around 80%.  That would mean I'll see closer to 500 miles per
>>> tanks!  Who wants that? lol.  Like I said, its an on demand system that
>>> does
>>> not replace the need for your current fuel and you do not store any.  *
>>> **While 80% may seem optimistic, 100% has been had as well.  Even if only
>>> 20% occurred, That would exceed 300 miles.
>>> It is possible to have 100% on demand, but there has to be a way to stop
>>> the
>>> flow of Hydrogen to the combustion chamber when you let of the gas.
>>> We're
>>> working on a solenoid set up that would cut off the flow at once, when
>>> the
>>> accelerator pedal is let up.  Until we can get the car to stop powering
>>> through, the 100% option is not going to be available.
>>> Also, it is important to offer this more as a way to reduce emissions
>>> than
>>> to save gas.  Same story, but different attention.  The guy I'm working
>>> with/learning from, has had to move shop due to harassment from people
>>> who
>>> do not appreciate effort to reduce the demand for fuel.
>>> As for the obstacles, myths and typical rebuttals about Hydrogen
>> systems...
>>> no point in bringing them up here.  This works.  Its proven.  End of
>> story.
>>> I just haven't earned mine yet.
>>>
>>> Is it worth it for you?
>>> What is your current mileage?  I get between 250 and 280 per 18G tank.  I
>>> do
>>> a lot of long trips.
>>> Using 250 as a base average:
>>> 10% = + 25 miles
>>> 20% = + 50 miles
>>> 25% = + 62.5 miles
>>> 50% = + 125 miles
>>> 75% = + 187.5 miles
>>> 80% = + 2o0 miles
>>> 90% = + 225 miles
>>> 100% = + 250 miles
>>> *
>>> *
>>> Toss that around in your head awhile.  If you're interested in one and
>> want
>>> more information, stay in touch.  I'll keep and honest and transparent
>>> log
>>> about what I'm doing and what I'm getting as results.  I will be
>> installing
>>> several as I make my way across and around the US between now and July.
>>>
>>> ***
>>> *
>>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
>>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> re
>>>>
>>>> Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps if all cars on the planet suddenly switched over to that in a
>>> year
>>>> or two ..
>>>> What I think is likely is ..
>>>> that Asian countires, India etc ..
>>>> will be driving fairly ordinary cars for a while.....they're still
>>> working
>>>> hard on getting millions of new cars to the masses, and not super high
>>> tech
>>>> hybird ones too much ..
>>>> so lots of fossile fuel will still be burned on the planet for a
>> while...
>>>> as they work harder to get more of the juice out of the ground ..
>>>> while switch to pure electric cars or very effecient gas/diesel/hybrids
>>> ..
>>>> I really don't think it's going to get to where
>>>> cars are so super effecient they have to charge 25 times as much for a
>>>> gallon of gas ..
>>>> man ..don't get me started..
>>>> the sheer incredible amounts of gas and diesel and JP-4 that are burned
>>>> every second on this planet, 24/7 , 365 days a year ....cars, planes,
>>> trains
>>>> and ships ...
>>>> there is so much burning going on it's silly ..
>>>> and there are still millions of people in Mongolia, or the middle east
>> or
>>>> say ....india ..that they now want their car that they never had
>>>> before.
>>>> and 'peak oil' ...remember that from about 10 to 15 yrs ago ?
>>>>
>>>> Now they get it out of previously abondoned oil fields..
>>>> and drill deeper and in more odd areas than ever before. And they don't
>>>> just drill straight down ..
>>>> they drill miles off to the side ...the amount of oil being extracted
>>>> is
>>>> huge and they are still finding
>>>> new depositis of it.
>>>> I sure wish they'd stop all that burninf of fossible fuel though.
>>>> Heck ..just commuting is a shame.
>>>> and Toll Booths ! ..what a collasal waste of fuel and time ...while the
>>>> toll takers stand there breating it ..
>>>> though I imagine they a fresh air source in some toll taker's booths
>>> ..and
>>>> they're switching to electroinic toll taking, no stopping.  I knew
>>> commuting
>>>> all at the same time was stupid when I was 6.
>>>> Pure dyfunctionality.
>>>> and if it ever does get to where the whole planet is screwed becuase
>> they
>>>> are still stuck some in the 'age of oil' ....and there isn't enough
>>> around
>>>> anymore ..
>>>> they're gonna look back and see that many many decades worth of oil was
>>>> just squandered and wasted.
>>>>
>>>> hydrogen...
>>>> a few problems..
>>>> one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution system. It
>> would
>>>> take years to build it.
>>>> Making it is ...........can be problimatic or environmentally difficult
>>>> ....wik it.
>>>> and then there's storage on the vehcile..
>>>> high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
>>>> I beleive I read there are hydrogen fuel stations for cars in Japan
>>>> ...maybe it was 20 in the Tokyo area ...
>>>> and a few in Los Angeles ..and some fuel cell cars in both of those
>>> places.
>>>> The real price of a feul cell car currently is about $ 100K ..something
>>>> like that, perhaps more even.
>>>> I think it's getting 'that much' hydrogen is one of the main problems
>>>> too...if it was really depended on for mass use in transportation.
>>>> Drive less for one thing.
>>>> and ...'the car' is not really BAD..
>>>> it's how THE CAR IS USED.
>>>> In the southern oregon city I live near ..
>>>> a common person , almost, drives a giant pick up truck as a single
>> person
>>>> 'car.'   Nothing in it either ..
>>>> it's like it's a life style statment ..who cares if it's 15 mpg max.
>>>> so if most people drove medium size cars ..
>>>> say Honda Accord size before they made it 'fat' ( just like Subaru made
>>>> there near perfect size and selling Outback 'fat' last year ) ....
>>>> if everyone drove that size car ....normal people , not familes of 9
>>> ...but
>>>> that size car, used intellegently, and not spending hours in traffic
>>> ..the
>>>> 'car problem' ...emissions, accidents, congestion, and fuel consumption
>>>> could be easily reduced by half.
>>>> and ..I'd like to see this.,
>>>> Thought of this over 10 years ago ...each car has a large digital
>> readout
>>>> on the back that says how many gallons it burned this month.
>>>> and near the end of the month you go ' wow...look at that guy ...he's
>>> only
>>>> on his 7th gallon this month.
>>>> And then ....Oh crap ..look at that person in their giant oversize rig
>>> and
>>>> too-much-driving habits ...they're on their 70th gallon this month.'
>>>> But and the way many  americans are ..they'd strive for the bigger
>>> number
>>>> ..many think it is their right to use up all the energy their income
>> will
>>>> pay for. We do use 1/4 of the worlds energy.......something like that,
>>> and
>>>> we are 1/2th of the population .. But that's shifting gradually as
>> people
>>>> wake up to the new financial reality and conditions I ..I sure hope  !
>>> lol.
>>>> And don't even think about places like Lagos Nigeria where the country
>>>> exports billions in oil yet most of the nation is in total poverty.
>>>> Somethin' aint right there.
>>>> And mass transist ..no no no ....always needs to be subsidized at great
>>>> government expense..
>>>> isn't as safe as being in your own well-driven car ....and isn't door
>>>> to
>>>> door. Just use appropiately sized cars intellegently.  Shouldn't be
>>>> that
>>>> hard really.   Before long our gov will privatize with china being the
>>>> vendor ...and they'll just send each citizen money and vids to watch .
>>> And
>>>> we won't burn so much fuel needlessly.
>>>>
>>>> just use it wisely is all I say.
>>>> scott
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "robby kilborn" <
>>> robbykilborn@GMAIL.COM
>>>>>
>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company
>>>> May
>>>> Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
>>>>> What about Hydrogen?  Anybody else running hydrogen on their van?  Who
>>> is
>>>>> getting good mileage these days?  What are you doing to get it?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Robert Stewart <
>>> robertmstewart@mac.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://m.wired.com/autopia/2011/01/vw-xl1-concept-car/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's an article on the XL1 Concept Car that reaches some insane
>>> MPG's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thought you all might be interested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>> NY
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
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