I fail to see how this can't be considered a vanagon thread.
I once built one of these "gadgets" for use on a vanagon.
I never really got around to testing it. It currently resides as a small
electrolyses generator I use for production of pure(er) oxygen for use in
yeast propagation. The H side of things is fun too.... fill a few balloons
and hit those beasts with a lighter. They go boom.

Why I never put it in the bus?
There's simply no way that the one I built would be capable of making any
difference. It draws something like 6 amps and produces something like 50ml
of h2 per minute (I haven't done a flow test in 2 years). That's not exactly
pure Hydrogen, but rather "HHO" Which is why they call these HHO generators.
It's just not enough to run any engine larger than a weedwacker.

There is a great deal of info out there on the internet. And I can show
plans and functionality as to how to mount one into a vanagon. Therefore,
it's an accessory that fits a vanagon.... just like tires.
And just like tires, there will be a legendary debate about what is THE
BEST, and in this case, whether or not it's real.

My only point is, I don't see why this is a friday only topic? The guy's
building it to put in a vanagon.
I think if we are to talk about it, it should at least remain vanagon
related with questions like "How much cubic volume of air, with how much
fuel atomized, does a WBX use at a specific RPM?"
or "Where can I gain access to huge current wires in the engine bay, i'd
like to add a ____ resistor inline".

I would however, look forward to a real friday discussion about the topic as
a whole.

-Craig
'87SUNROOF Syncro
'85 SUNROOF GL Turned WESTY
BOSTIG in the back

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 8:53 PM, BenT Syncro <syncro@gmail.com> wrote:

> Friday, please.
>
>
> BenT
>
>
> On Jan 29, 2011, at 5:37 PM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET> wrote:
>
> > So, BentT, does additional interest make this a official Vanagon thread
> or
> > do we still wait until Friday?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
> Of
> > HotelWestfalia
> > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:08 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Hydrogen help for the Vanagons
> >
> >
> >
> > I have seen some articles on this before.  It's very simple.  No storage,
> > only what is produced is used by the engine.  I don't know much about the
> > nitty-gritty though.  I'm sure, it's against the oil companies wishes, so
> > the gov. would not want it yet.
> > I'm interested to know more of it.
> > Zoltan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 4:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
> > Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
> >
> >
> >> Then explain how it works.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
> Of
> >> robby kilborn
> >> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 6:06 PM
> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >> Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company May
> >> Use
> >> - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No, its not a matter of breaking tap water into the two elements. lol.
> >> Its
> >> not a scam either.  I've watched it work on several vehicles.  As I
> said,
> >> I'll be getting mine installed soon and will keep you posted on the
> >> gains/losses.  Until then, I'm learning everything I can from him.  He
> has
> >> his entire place off the grid, and burns hydrogen in his trucks and
> >> generators.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is this the system that uses power from your battery to break tap water
> >>> into oxygen and hydrogen then feeds it into your engine?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If so then it's a scam. A local guy was building and installing these,
> he
> >>> even got on the local news.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Now he doesn't need to worry about  making money anymore. He gets three
> >>> free meals a day, a choice between three TC channels and all the s%x he
> >> can
> >>> stand - he's in jail.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Tom
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *From:* Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] *On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of *robby kilborn
> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:52 AM
> >>>
> >>> *To:* vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >>> *Subject:* Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company
> >>> May
> >>> Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> hydrogen...
> >>>
> >>> a few problems..one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast
> distribution
> >>> system. It would take years to build it. Making it is ...........can be
> >>> problimatic or environmentally difficult ....wik it.and then there's
> >>> storage
> >>> on the vehcile..high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have only just begun working with a guy who has been building 'on
> >> demand'
> >>> fuel cells for the past 8 years.  He is not overly well known amongst
> >>> regular joes, but he is sure known internationally.  This past week, I
> >> have
> >>> helped to build and install a few cells in cars, trucks, RV's, rc's....
> >> gas
> >>> and diesels.  There is no need to store hydrogen on site, other than
> >> enough
> >>> to keep a steady flow into your combustion chamber.  *This system does
> >>> not
> >>> replace the need of gasoline or diesel, but it does aid in more
> complete
> >>> combustion, so the 13% burn for gas or 17% burn for diesel, is more
> near
> >>> 100% - that is the goal, and with some setting and adjusting, it is
> >>> possible.  Next week, I get my own installed in my Syncro.  I'll keep
> you
> >>> posted on how it works for me.  Fuel gains for the people who have been
> >> in,
> >>> have been around 80%.  That would mean I'll see closer to 500 miles per
> >>> tanks!  Who wants that? lol.  Like I said, its an on demand system that
> >>> does
> >>> not replace the need for your current fuel and you do not store any.  *
> >>> **While 80% may seem optimistic, 100% has been had as well.  Even if
> only
> >>> 20% occurred, That would exceed 300 miles.
> >>> It is possible to have 100% on demand, but there has to be a way to
> stop
> >>> the
> >>> flow of Hydrogen to the combustion chamber when you let of the gas.
> >>> We're
> >>> working on a solenoid set up that would cut off the flow at once, when
> >>> the
> >>> accelerator pedal is let up.  Until we can get the car to stop powering
> >>> through, the 100% option is not going to be available.
> >>> Also, it is important to offer this more as a way to reduce emissions
> >>> than
> >>> to save gas.  Same story, but different attention.  The guy I'm working
> >>> with/learning from, has had to move shop due to harassment from people
> >>> who
> >>> do not appreciate effort to reduce the demand for fuel.
> >>> As for the obstacles, myths and typical rebuttals about Hydrogen
> >> systems...
> >>> no point in bringing them up here.  This works.  Its proven.  End of
> >> story.
> >>> I just haven't earned mine yet.
> >>>
> >>> Is it worth it for you?
> >>> What is your current mileage?  I get between 250 and 280 per 18G tank.
>  I
> >>> do
> >>> a lot of long trips.
> >>> Using 250 as a base average:
> >>> 10% = + 25 miles
> >>> 20% = + 50 miles
> >>> 25% = + 62.5 miles
> >>> 50% = + 125 miles
> >>> 75% = + 187.5 miles
> >>> 80% = + 2o0 miles
> >>> 90% = + 225 miles
> >>> 100% = + 250 miles
> >>> *
> >>> *
> >>> Toss that around in your head awhile.  If you're interested in one and
> >> want
> >>> more information, stay in touch.  I'll keep and honest and transparent
> >>> log
> >>> about what I'm doing and what I'm getting as results.  I will be
> >> installing
> >>> several as I make my way across and around the US between now and July.
> >>>
> >>> ***
> >>> *
> >>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
> >>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> re
> >>>>
> >>>> Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps if all cars on the planet suddenly switched over to that in a
> >>> year
> >>>> or two ..
> >>>> What I think is likely is ..
> >>>> that Asian countires, India etc ..
> >>>> will be driving fairly ordinary cars for a while.....they're still
> >>> working
> >>>> hard on getting millions of new cars to the masses, and not super high
> >>> tech
> >>>> hybird ones too much ..
> >>>> so lots of fossile fuel will still be burned on the planet for a
> >> while...
> >>>> as they work harder to get more of the juice out of the ground ..
> >>>> while switch to pure electric cars or very effecient
> gas/diesel/hybrids
> >>> ..
> >>>> I really don't think it's going to get to where
> >>>> cars are so super effecient they have to charge 25 times as much for a
> >>>> gallon of gas ..
> >>>> man ..don't get me started..
> >>>> the sheer incredible amounts of gas and diesel and JP-4 that are
> burned
> >>>> every second on this planet, 24/7 , 365 days a year ....cars, planes,
> >>> trains
> >>>> and ships ...
> >>>> there is so much burning going on it's silly ..
> >>>> and there are still millions of people in Mongolia, or the middle east
> >> or
> >>>> say ....india ..that they now want their car that they never had
> >>>> before.
> >>>> and 'peak oil' ...remember that from about 10 to 15 yrs ago ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Now they get it out of previously abondoned oil fields..
> >>>> and drill deeper and in more odd areas than ever before. And they
> don't
> >>>> just drill straight down ..
> >>>> they drill miles off to the side ...the amount of oil being extracted
> >>>> is
> >>>> huge and they are still finding
> >>>> new depositis of it.
> >>>> I sure wish they'd stop all that burninf of fossible fuel though.
> >>>> Heck ..just commuting is a shame.
> >>>> and Toll Booths ! ..what a collasal waste of fuel and time ...while
> the
> >>>> toll takers stand there breating it ..
> >>>> though I imagine they a fresh air source in some toll taker's booths
> >>> ..and
> >>>> they're switching to electroinic toll taking, no stopping.  I knew
> >>> commuting
> >>>> all at the same time was stupid when I was 6.
> >>>> Pure dyfunctionality.
> >>>> and if it ever does get to where the whole planet is screwed becuase
> >> they
> >>>> are still stuck some in the 'age of oil' ....and there isn't enough
> >>> around
> >>>> anymore ..
> >>>> they're gonna look back and see that many many decades worth of oil
> was
> >>>> just squandered and wasted.
> >>>>
> >>>> hydrogen...
> >>>> a few problems..
> >>>> one is infrastructure ...there isn't a vast distribution system. It
> >> would
> >>>> take years to build it.
> >>>> Making it is ...........can be problimatic or environmentally
> difficult
> >>>> ....wik it.
> >>>> and then there's storage on the vehcile..
> >>>> high pressure tanks .....just far more demanding there.
> >>>> I beleive I read there are hydrogen fuel stations for cars in Japan
> >>>> ...maybe it was 20 in the Tokyo area ...
> >>>> and a few in Los Angeles ..and some fuel cell cars in both of those
> >>> places.
> >>>> The real price of a feul cell car currently is about $ 100K
> ..something
> >>>> like that, perhaps more even.
> >>>> I think it's getting 'that much' hydrogen is one of the main problems
> >>>> too...if it was really depended on for mass use in transportation.
> >>>> Drive less for one thing.
> >>>> and ...'the car' is not really BAD..
> >>>> it's how THE CAR IS USED.
> >>>> In the southern oregon city I live near ..
> >>>> a common person , almost, drives a giant pick up truck as a single
> >> person
> >>>> 'car.'   Nothing in it either ..
> >>>> it's like it's a life style statment ..who cares if it's 15 mpg max.
> >>>> so if most people drove medium size cars ..
> >>>> say Honda Accord size before they made it 'fat' ( just like Subaru
> made
> >>>> there near perfect size and selling Outback 'fat' last year ) ....
> >>>> if everyone drove that size car ....normal people , not familes of 9
> >>> ...but
> >>>> that size car, used intellegently, and not spending hours in traffic
> >>> ..the
> >>>> 'car problem' ...emissions, accidents, congestion, and fuel
> consumption
> >>>> could be easily reduced by half.
> >>>> and ..I'd like to see this.,
> >>>> Thought of this over 10 years ago ...each car has a large digital
> >> readout
> >>>> on the back that says how many gallons it burned this month.
> >>>> and near the end of the month you go ' wow...look at that guy ...he's
> >>> only
> >>>> on his 7th gallon this month.
> >>>> And then ....Oh crap ..look at that person in their giant oversize rig
> >>> and
> >>>> too-much-driving habits ...they're on their 70th gallon this month.'
> >>>> But and the way many  americans are ..they'd strive for the bigger
> >>> number
> >>>> ..many think it is their right to use up all the energy their income
> >> will
> >>>> pay for. We do use 1/4 of the worlds energy.......something like that,
> >>> and
> >>>> we are 1/2th of the population .. But that's shifting gradually as
> >> people
> >>>> wake up to the new financial reality and conditions I ..I sure hope  !
> >>> lol.
> >>>> And don't even think about places like Lagos Nigeria where the country
> >>>> exports billions in oil yet most of the nation is in total poverty.
> >>>> Somethin' aint right there.
> >>>> And mass transist ..no no no ....always needs to be subsidized at
> great
> >>>> government expense..
> >>>> isn't as safe as being in your own well-driven car ....and isn't door
> >>>> to
> >>>> door. Just use appropiately sized cars intellegently.  Shouldn't be
> >>>> that
> >>>> hard really.   Before long our gov will privatize with china being the
> >>>> vendor ...and they'll just send each citizen money and vids to watch .
> >>> And
> >>>> we won't burn so much fuel needlessly.
> >>>>
> >>>> just use it wisely is all I say.
> >>>> scott
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "robby kilborn" <
> >>> robbykilborn@GMAIL.COM
> >>>>>
> >>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >>>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:20 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Interesting VW Article on Future Technology The Company
> >>>> May
> >>>> Use - Hopefully it will reach a new Vanagon Soon
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Cars like this mean fuel prices will have to be about $100/gal.
> >>>>> What about Hydrogen?  Anybody else running hydrogen on their van?
>  Who
> >>> is
> >>>>> getting good mileage these days?  What are you doing to get it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Robert Stewart <
> >>> robertmstewart@mac.com
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://m.wired.com/autopia/2011/01/vw-xl1-concept-car/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here's an article on the XL1 Concept Car that reaches some insane
> >>> MPG's.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thought you all might be interested.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rob
> >>>>>> NY
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3408 - Release Date: 01/28/11
> >>>
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3410 - Release Date: 01/29/11
> >>
> >
> >  _____
> >
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3411 - Release Date: 01/29/11
>