Gentlemen,

A moderator closed this discussion at:

1:30pm
3:05pm
3:08pm

Please defer any further discussion until Friday -- or never if possible.

BenT
Mod

On Mar 5, 2011, at 3:32 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:

> it ain't gonna happen ..
> and I'm an optimist pretty much.
> 
> way, way too many people TOTALLY depend on the go-juice in their car's tanks
> to get to work, to get food...
> etc. etc.  It's a servere national addiction..
> 
> and ....if/when crude oil or gas or diesel gets pretty scarce ( 'if' ) ..
> we will be able to look back ..
> and see how much we ( not us, 'them' ..them big truck and SUV drivers )
> basically SQUANDERED the oil we had.
> 
> Seriously ...'the common' car is often a truck or SUV and they are getting
> in the 15 to 18 mpg range.
> 'most' fancy new cars are in the low 20's to mid 20's under good conditons..
> in the normal day-to-day driving life of most cars ..
> they are getting their city fuel milage , if that.
> Talked to a typical 'drives a monster truck' guy around here ( Medord ,
> southern Oregon ) ..
> 15 mpg on diesel baby , that's unloaded.
> 
> and that is COMMON .
> Check out the sales figures for very high milage cars ..
> I'm sure they're sellin' 'em ...but not in the #'s more thirsty cars enjoy.
> 
> actually ...
> come to think of it ..
> if one really cared about not using what oil there is ..
> they would be in FAVOR OF HIGHER FUEL PRICES ..
> 
> because ....lazy americans being just lazy americans..
> unless there is significant pain ...
> they'll just keep filling the tank even if it is 80 bucks ....
> so really ..
> higher fuel prices are BETTER .
> 
> Like the last thing we need is more and more and more road fuel consumption.
> We need less road fuel consumption..
> via shorter or no commutes to work, via smaller cars ..
> 
> oh..and get this ..
> As some may know, there is a gas guzler tax on cars that get poor fuel
> milage ..
> it's a variable scale ...starts somewhere in the low to mid 20's mpg
> ....that might be a thousand dollar gas guzler tax......and it goes in steps
> for cars that get fewer and fewer mpg ..
> to the point where a Ferrari or Bently that's only 10mpg pays a 7,000 dollar
> gas guzler tax.
> ( course that's a joke..
> since if they car costs say 350,000 dollars, what's another 7K anyway ? )
> 
> BUT ...get this ..
> SUV's, Trucks, And Vans do not pay a gas guzler tax....they are not subject
> to it at all.
> 
> so ..all those giant pick ups ..
> and in Medford OR ..that is the common vehicle...large pick up truck ..gotta
> be a MAN after all...
> there is no incentive to drive something more fuel effecient..
> not really ..
> they may grumble ..and it may shfit some if the prices go ..
> and I'm expecting what a couple of years ago was '4 per gal, and 5 per gal
> for diesel in Alaska' ..
> this time ..
> pushing 6 per gallon would not suprise me .
> 
> and if that cuts down on the mostly very wasteful driving of overly large
> vehciles...
> that's something I'd like to see.
> 
> and ...frankly ....this is a socialist notion of course ..
> but it's ...funny word .......'unfair' ..not a word I use usually ..
> but it must be horribly obvious that a hard workin' guy with a family of
> four or five, and a factory or labor job ..
> that his gas costs him infenitely more, in terms of hours of work needed to
> buy a few gallons.........
> than it does people making sums like a few million a year ..living in huge
> oversized houses etc..
> for some of those ...gas could be 10 per gallon and it wouldnt' impact them
> much at all really.
> Of course...I have been in favor of a maximum person income for a long, long
> time..
> but people say that's communist or whatever ..
> however...I just don't get it.......that some say, basketball players get
> sums like 10 mill a year...
> and millions die and starve in other parts of the planet at the same time,
> or even in our nation. . I think excessive income is flat immoral .
> 
> so ...
> use it wisely while we have it I say ..
> and ...oh ..
> an election is coming right ?
> that usually lowers fuel prices.  We have a year to go to get very close to
> that I think though.
> 
> it's like anything ..
> the thing itself is not so 'bad' per se ..it's how it's used.
> The car as personal transportation isn't used that wisely that often ...and
> it would be so easy to do too.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Max Wellhouse" <dimwittedmoose@CFU.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 2:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: Gasoline: Any VANAGON People buy this concept?
> 
> 
>> We don't have any Exxon Mobil stations here.   Gotta 3/4/5 we could pick
>> on???
>> 
>> Looking for a bicycle for my prostitute girlfriend so she can peddle
>> it all over town.
>> 
>> DM&FS
>> 
>> At 03:17 PM 3/5/2011, George Wietor wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> IS NOT THE 'DON'T BUY' GAS FOR ONE DAY, BUT IT  WILL SHOW YOU
>>> HOW  WE CAN GET GAS BACK DOWN TO    $1.30 PER  GALLON.
>>> This  was sent by a retired Coca Cola executive.  It came from one
>>> of  his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton.  If you
>>> are  tired of the gas prices going up AND they will continue to rise
>>> this  summer, take time to read this  please.
>>> Phillip  Hollsworth offered this good idea.
>>> This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than  the "don't buy gas on a certain
>>> day"  campaign that was going  around last April or May!
>>> It's worth your  consideration.  Join the resistance!!!!
>>> I  hear we are going to hit close to $ 4.00 a gallon by next summer
>>> and  it might go higher!!  Want gasoline prices to come  down?
>>> 
>>> We  need to take some intelligent, united  action.
>>> The  oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we
>>> wouldn't  continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy  gas .
>>> It  was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for  them.
>>> BUT, whoever  thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
>>> Really work.  Please read on and join with  us!
>>> 
>>> By  now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $2.00 is
>>> super  cheap.  Me too!  It is currently $3.08 at Arco and
>>> Costco  for regular unleaded in Salem, Oregon and climbing every  week.
>>> Now  that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us
>>> to  think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 -
>>> $1.75, we  need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS
>>> control the  marketplace..not sellers.
>>> 
>>> With  the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers
>>> need to  take action.
>>> 
>>> The  only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if
>>> we hit  someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas!  And,
>>> we  can do that WITHOUT hurting  ourselves.
>>> How?  Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying  gas.
>>> 
>>> But  we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to
>>> force a  price war.
>>> 
>>> Here's  the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY
>>> gasoline from  the two biggest companies (which now are  one), EXXON and
>>> MOBIL.
>>> If  they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce
>>> their  prices.  If they reduce their prices, the other companies
>>> will  have to follow suit.
>>> 
>>> But  to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon
>>> and  Mobil gas buyers.  It's really simple to do!  Now, don't  wimp
>>> out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how  simple
>>> it is to reach millions of  people!!
>>> 
>>> I  am sending this note to 30 people.  If each of us send it to
>>> at  least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ...  and those 300 send it to
>>> at  least ten more (300 x 10 =  3,000)... and  so on, by the time
>>> the message reaches the sixth group of people, we  will have reached
>>> over THREE MILLION  consumers .
>>> If  those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends
>>> each,  then 30 million people will have been  contacted!
>>> 
>>> If  it goes one level further, you guessed it.....  THREE
>>> HUNDRED  MILLION PEOPLE!!!
>>> 
>>> Again,  all you have to do is send this to 10 people.  That's  all!
>>> 
>>> (If  you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you
>>> have to  do is send this to 10 people....  Well, let's face it, you
>>> just  aren't a mathematician  But I am .  so trust me on this  one.
>>> 
>>> How  long would all that take?  If each of us sends this e-mail out
>>> to  ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION
>>> people  could conceivably be contacted within the next 8  days!
>>> I'll  bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential,
>>> did  you!  Acting together we  can make a difference.
>>> 
>>> If  this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.  I
>>> suggest  that we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR
>>> PRICES TO THE  $2.00 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN.  THIS CAN REALLY  WORK.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>