Closed topic as of 12:21pm yesterday.

Unless you are talking about putting tubes in tires, redirect to Friday.

BenT
Mod

On Aug 22, 2011, at 12:01 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:

> well.........
> it's not fridae,
> and please say that FOR YOU it's all financially-dictated.
> 
> what my food costs is very low on my list of reasons why I chose to eat what
> I eat.
> I barely even consider cost in that decision. I consider health aspects
> mainly.  Damn the cost.
> There is no substitute for good nutrition.
> Anyone would be wise to try to do the best they can in that department.
> if they spend a higher portion of their income on good food ...so what ?
> 
> it's being truly 'at choice' that's important.
> If one nutritional suppliment  you think you should take is say $ 40 in one
> brand, and the same about is only $ 17 in another brand..
> are you really at choice, , the best interests of your own health ..
> with the less expensive one ? maybe, maybe not.
> 
> sorry ...direct out-of-pocket cost is not very high on my list of
> priorities. And ..
> if people contribute $ to me ...
> just to be generous..
> I in turn give to others ...just 'give' ..a no-strings-attached gift ..
> how does that figure in your statement ?
> 
> not in it for the money, but to serve.
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Was Tubes in tires, now gas tanks
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to bash you or be negative towards you but those who believe
> their decisions through the day are not financial need to do some looking at
> themselves.
> 
> Everything if financial - for example:
> 
> I try to eat healthy so I have 2 pieces of whole wheat bread with (real)
> butter in the morning. When I started buying the bread I eat I decided the
> return was worth the additional cost - that's a financial decision.
> 
> I'll make sure I can afford the tickets before I go to the movie with my
> youngest Son this evening - that's a financial decision.
> 
> I'm always aware of the amount of coffee I have left when I make my next pot
> of coffee - that's a financial decision.
> 
> When I go shopping for this week's groceries, I comparison shop - that's a
> whole series of financial decisions!
> 
> How many decisions have you made today without considering the long or short
> term financial cost to you or to someone else?
> 
> Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.towercooler.com
> www.kegkits.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net]
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:14 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Tom Hargrave
> Subject: Re: [VANAGON] Was Tubes in tires, now gas tanks
> 
> Well Tom, different folks have different moralities.  for some, financial is
> the only reality.  too bad.  mcneely
> 
> ---- Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET> wrote:
>> My original response was to the tire tube question and why shops will not
>> mount tubes in tubeless tires today. I brought in the Pinto as another
>> example of our legal system "taking care of us".
>> 
>> 
>> Your argument that Ford's design compromise could allow someone to get
>> hurt could be considered unconscionable is flawed. Using your logic, the
>> original VW type 1 (beetle) design could be called unconscionable because
>> it provided very little side impact collision protection, as a friend who
>> was killed in one years ago discovered. Her 1967 VW Bug was hit in the
>> driver side door & she died 4 hours later from internal damage caused by
>> the impact.
>> 
>> Ford did analyze the situation and as Jim pointed out in his post and as
>> he stated their decision was financial. But so are your insurance coverage
>> and what you decide to buy today. So, it's OK for you to make a financial
>> decision that affects the type of insurance coverage on your vehicle and
>> it's not OK for Ford to make a financial decision that affects less than
>> 0.1% of their car owners? All business decisions are financial, including
>> decisions made by VW's "Engineering driven" staff. At the end of the day
>> all businesses have to make a good profit to continue delivering the
>> products we all want and every one of them make finance driven design
>> compromises.
>> 
>> And as far as gas tanks go, Ford was the only one who's gas tank served as
>> the trunk floor. Everyone else with rear mounted gas tanks suspended the
>> tank below the trunk with bolts or straps. Sure, rear mounted gas tanks
>> can split on impact but with other's designs, if that gas tank split &
>> ruptured & burned the fire started on the outside. Even the original
>> mustang used the trunk floor design and the Mustang fastbacks were subject
>> to the same combination of events as the Pinto. With the Crown Vic and
>> other non-hatch back Fords, the gas tank top was separated from the
>> passenger compartment with a bulkhead & back seat.
>> 
>> The real issue is that all of us are driving up & down the highway in
>> potential rolling fire bombs & we all seem to be OK with that risk. If I
>> threw 12 sicks of dynimite or 1/2 pound of C4 explsive into your Vanagon &
>> said, "hey, carry this for me, I don't have room in my car" you'd jump out
>> and nail me for exposing you to such risk. But you think nothing of
>> pumping 16 gallons of highly volitile, explosive gasoline into your tank
>> and driving off for the weekend.
>> 
>> Thanks, Tom Hargrave
>> www.stir-plate.com
>> www.towercooler.com
>> www.kegkits.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>> Dave Mcneely
>> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:07 AM
>> To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> Subject: Re: Tubes in tires.
>> 
>> Tom, I'm not sure what your point is.  The Pinto was subject to gas tank
>> rupturing in a rear end collision.  One did not have to be smoking for the
>> burst tank to result in flames.  The same was true of the much later model
>> Ford Crown Victoria (Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car), but
>> accidents involving stopped police cruisers got most of the attention.
>> Just because something makes the news multiple times does not mean that it
>> is a "pseudo problem."  It might be for real.  If Ford knew about a
>> potentially deadly flaw, and yet continued to market the vehicle bearing
>> it, then that was an unconscionable behavior on Ford's part.  Corporations
>> take immoral positions about as often as individuals do.  The consequences
>> are just much greater in the case of corporations.
>> 
>> Not just the Pinto, but other vehicles with the gas tank that far back,
>> including some other hatch back models had the same problem.  That is one
>> reason that body style became modified considerably in most brands.
>> mcneely
>> 
>> ---- Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET> wrote:
>> > Running tubes in tubeless tires causes sidewalls to run hotter. And
>> > although
>> > it was a less than 0.1% problem, enough accidents have happened because
>> > of
>> > the practice to force the tire shops to stop putting tubes in tubeless
>> > tires.
>> >
>> > You only need one horrible accident involving one SUV full of Mom & Kids
>> > that's linked to a real or imaginary flaw to cause the National Media to
>> > go
>> > into a feeding frenzy. The end result will be some corporation will be
>> > hurt
>> > and then all of us will pay more for whatever that entire industry
>> > delivers
>> > because everyone in that industry has to pass along their increased
>> > insurance cost to us. So, who wins at the end? The defense and the
>> > prosecution lawyers win because they all got paid.
>> >
>> > Remember the Ford Pinto issue? If you were in a Pinto AND you were in
>> > the
>> > front seat smoking AND you were hit from behind AT THE RIGHT SPEED, the
>> > passenger compartment would get sprayed with gas and you and your family
>> > MIGHT turn into crispy critters. Ford knew about the problem but
>> > calculated
>> > accurately that it was a less than 0.1% problem. But the media picked it
>> > up
>> > anyway and at the end of their feeding frenzy Ford was screwed. Or more
>> > correctly, Ford's future customers were screwed since the cost of
>> > loosing
>> > was ultimately passed on to the consumer, just as all corporate lawsuits
>> > are.
>> >
>> > The irony of the Pinto issue was that at the same time the Toyota
>> > Corolla
>> > was killing drivers by impaling them on the steering column. But the
>> > Toyotas
>> > weren't bursting into balls of fire and they did not grab media
>> > attention!
>> >
>> > Thanks, Tom Hargrave
>> > www.stir-plate.com
>> > www.towercooler.com
>> > www.kegkits.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> > Of
>> > craig cowan
>> > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:14 PM
>> > To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> > Subject: Tubes in tires.
>> >
>> > I have a BFG that was damaged at the bead upon removal from the previous
>> > set
>> > of wheels. It is still a great tire with tons of tread. It just leaks
>> > air
>> > now. I'm thinking throw a tube in it, and since it will be used as a
>> > spare
>> > anyway..... it should hold air well then and serve it's purpose right?
>> >
>> > Are there any flaws in this statement? Are there problems with tubes?
>> > Is there a reason why 4 tire shops told me today that they can't legally
>> > put
>> > a tube in a tubeless tire, but all suggest that I do that?
>> >
>> > -Craig
>> > -----
>> > No virus found in this message.
>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1520/3847 - Release Date: 08/20/11
>> 
>> --
>> David McNeely
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1520/3848 - Release Date: 08/21/11
> 
> --
> David McNeely
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1520/3848 - Release Date: 08/21/11