I'll use hand signals in addition to blinkers on a motorcycle to reinforce the impending move to any motorists who�might be�taking the trouble to kinda sorta pay attention, use them on a bicycle sometimes when the perceived need is necessary, but�seldom in a four-wheeler.

Stephen

--- On Fri, 3/2/12, Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

From: Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: TPMS (was Checked your spare tire recently? Spare Tire Size) - Now Hand Signals
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 1:20 PM

Out here in Kaleeforneeah, I see people using hand signals all the time.� Don't think they have anything to do with making turns though...

Cheers, 

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 6:44 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: TPMS (was Checked your spare tire recently? Spare Tire Size)

Hi,
I believe the hand signals are still legal, and if a vehicle has turn signal lights ..they have to be working of course, and I'd think if they� are there, one must use them rather than hand signals.

but I bet hand signals are still legal if the vehcile doesn't have and didn't come with electric turn signals.
I just saw a guy on a chopper motorcycle use hand signals the other day.

personally..
I think we should all have manually deployed semaphores that stick out of the side of our Vanagon� like my 54 Bug Had.
Like you pull a knob, or flip a lever.
why not.
Maybe huge ones just for grins !

On 3/1/2012 3:44 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
> Well, unfortunately I don't always use the back up camera, either.� I rationalize that I use it when I am in circumstances that warrant it, and am less likely to otherwise.� Like a lot of other things, time and generational change will make the difference.� My father continued to use hand signals for turns rather than the clicker until he stopped driving.� He would even drop his hand out the window and give a slow or stop signal that way.� For those who don't know, one puts the left arm out the window and points in the direction he intends to go.� that is, straight out for a left turn, hand pointing up, elbow bent, for a right turn, hand pointing down, elbow bent for slow or stop.� In Texas at the time, that was a legal way to signal.� I haven't seen anyone do that in years.� working turn signals are required on a legal car.� Maybe antiques are grandfathered, and the hand signals are still legal, but I never see them.
>
> I actually used to use the hand signals sometimes, but haven't done so myself in years.
>
> So, like the change from hand signals to the clicker, generational change will make the difference in use of the backup camera.
>
> mcneely
>
> ---- "Mike B."<mbucchino@charter.net>� wrote:
>> I have a back-up cam integrated in the rear view mirror on our 2010
>> Toyota Rav4.���It is nice, but I've gotta admit that many times I forget
>> it's there.���The gov't mandating it's presence in all pass vehicles,
>> and the mfgrs installing them, will NOT make anyone use one!
>>
>> Mike B.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>
>>> ---- Mark Tuovinen<aksyncronaut@gmail.com>� wrote:
>>>> "And if one simply disables this absurd money grabbing device on the
>>>> vehicle, what harm is done?� some new technology is simply not worth
>>>> the
>>>> expense and difficulty.
>>>>
>>>> mcneely"
>>>>
>>>> On some vehicles they communicate with things like ABS, Traction
>>>> Control,
>>>> Stability Assist, etc, delete the TPMS and you lose them all.� Those
>>>> competent enough to maintain tire pressure on their vehicles get to
>>>> pay for
>>>> the sins of others less capable when the goverment steps in to
>>>> protect us
>>>> by mandating such systems.� Mandatory backup cameras are on the
>>>> horizon and
>>>> had been scheduled for 2013 but the manufacturers are fighting this
>>>> due to
>>>> the cost involved.� Some mandates are a good thing but even then the
>>>> manufacturers manage to string the implementation out for as long as
>>>> possible.� Rear seat shoulder belts were required in the US around
>>>> 1989 but
>>>> if I understand correctly the upper anchoring point for them to
>>>> attach to
>>>> was mandated in 1972.� How many people were injured or killed between
>>>> those
>>>> years?
>>> well, it sounds more like manufacturers building things so to make
>>> them more expensive than necessary for the consumer.� If there is a
>>> government requirement for backup cameras (a really needed move that
>>> makers do support and that they have provided for by making the
>>> cameras independent of unnecessary options like gps, which they
>>> formerly were tied to), I am sure that in the long run the makers will
>>> find a way to screw us on that too.� though as my parenthetical points
>>> out, on this one they seem to be doing better than usual.� btw, the
>>> backup camera will, if consumers learn to use it, save numerous lives.
>>> many of those will be children not run over by their parents leaving a
>>> parking space at home.� that is the single most common way children
>>> die in vehicle accidents currently, and the most common out of vehicle
>>> accidental death of all descriptions.
>>>> Mark in AK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 6:00 AM,<mcneely4@cox.net>� wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---- Mark Tuovinen<aksyncronaut@GMAIL.COM>� wrote:
>>>>>> Some TPMS systems will self initialize others do not.� We run into
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> here in Alaska where it is common to have snow tires mounted on a
>>>>> separate
>>>>>> set of rims.� It used to be simple and cheap to purchased extra
>>>>>> rims to
>>>>>> have your snow tires mounted on then you could install them at home
>>>>>> or
>>>>> take
>>>>>> them to a shop if you preferred.� Now with TPMS it depends upon
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> system your vehicle uses.� If you are lucky your vehicle will
>>>>>> accept the
>>>>>> new rims/tires/sensors automatically if not you have to have a shop
>>>>>> plug
>>>>>> into the system and teach it to accept the new sensors then come
>>>>>> spring
>>>>>> change over you get to do it all over again.� With TPMS on your car
>>>>>> it
>>>>> can
>>>>>> run from $35.00 to $200.00 per sensor (times 4 for a set) plus the
>>>>>> twice
>>>>> a
>>>>>> year charge to initialize the system to read the sensors when you
>>>>>> swap
>>>>> from
>>>>>> one set of rims/tires to the other.
>>>>> And if one simply disables this absurd money grabbing device on the
>>>>> vehicle, what harm is done?� some new technology is simply not worth
>>>>> the
>>>>> expense and difficulty.
>>>>>
>>>>> mcneely
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark in AK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans<
>>>>>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com>� wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're lucky then Dave.
>>>>>>> Automotive Trade Magazines tell me that on some systems...
>>>>>>> it's necessary to 'tell' the TPMS where which tire and it's
>>>>>>> transmitter
>>>>>>> are now..
>>>>>>> you have to 'teach' the system where each tire is..
>>>>>>> on systems that have a dedicated per tire transmitter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> other systems, according to what I read use the ABS system to tell
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> something is not right tire pressure wise..
>>>>>>> and may not be able to identify 'the' tire ..
>>>>>>> but will turn on a warning light.
>>>>>>> The Federal requirement is that ..I think...if a tire gets below
>>>>>>> something like 65 % of correct pressure ..
>>>>>>> the driver gets a warning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally I believe in being smarter about what is going on with
>>>>>>> one's
>>>>>>> vehicle, not dumber.
>>>>>>> I notice GPS can help one not keep the picture picture in their
>>>>>>> mind of
>>>>>>> where they are going ..
>>>>>>> kinda makes people dumber that way...for example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/26/2012 8:36 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---- Dennis Haynes<d23haynes57@hotmail.com**>���wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>���many cars have means to program or reset them without
>>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>> tools.
>>>>>>>> the only one I am familiar with provides a generic warning for
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>> tire
>>>>>>>> when low.� a simple button under the dash reprograms when the
>>>>>>>> tires
>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> rotated.� mcneely
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David McNeely
>>>>>
>>> --
>>> David McNeely
> --
> David McNeely
>