Thank you for supporting me!

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:09 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Dennis Haynes
Subject: Re: [VANAGON] No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate-why it goes down after filling the system.

"Entrained" also means "carried along," as bubbles in a liquid flowing in a flume or pipe may be entrained:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/entrained

---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: 
> Scott,
> It is not normal for the cooling system to require regular top offs. 
> Except for some evaporation from that tank by the license plate there 
> should be no loss. If you're losing coolant you have a leak or the 
> pressure cap is not doing its job. The most likely unseen or unknown 
> leaker are the heater cores, especially the front one.  I would say if 
> you topping more than a few times a year you have an issue.
> 
> As for water soluble oil I see that as a contaminant and with modern 
> coolants additional lubricants aren't needed. Coolant also suitable 
> for Diesel engines do have more wetting agents and eliminate the need 
> of "water wetter" type products. The latest version of this stuff 
> (Final Charge) is designed for 5 year 600,000 mile operation. One down 
> side is the reduced surface tension (wetting capabilities) also make 
> leaks leak faster. These products are usually sold pre-mixed. 
> Otherwise it is strongly recommended to use distilled water. Water 
> quality is often more of the problem than the choice of antifreeze.
> 
> Maybe entrained was not a good choice of words. How about fresh, 
> especially from the tap or hose after pumped, churned and if from a 
> municipal supply has added chemicals including corrosive chlorine has 
> some level of dissolved oxygen in it?
> 
> Point is I was just trying to explain your observation of having to 
> top off the system after a major refill and I see the same situation. 
> I explain this to the customer and provide some coolant mix for them 
> to top it off over the day or two. I also make sure to pressure test 
> the system and cap. I at least check for hard hoses every time I see a vehicle.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On 
> Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:16 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate-why it goes 
> down after filling the system.
> 
> Hi Dennis,
> I know you said you are not a writer.
> 'entrained' means to put aboard a train  - dictionary.com.
> 
> yes..entrapped air in fresh water/coolant.
> 
> lol...'has went' is properly expressed as 'has gone' ..as in 'the 
> trucking industry has gone that way' for example.
> 
> hmmm.       I suppose adding coolant puts entrapped air into a cooling
> system...
> and that 'could' lead to more corrosion.
> So tell me...
> if a system uses coolant slightly, for no readily apparent reason ..
> like the majority of water-cooled vanagons do ..
> what is one supposed to do .........not add coolant ?
> 
> what I find is ............that air gradually works it's way out ..
> I find that when a cooling system is opened up ..
> it takes up to 6 warm-up cool-down cycles for things to stabilize.
> and ..
> if one just tops up the pressure bottle at each cool down cycle after 
> opening the cooling system ..do that several times ...top up there if 
> there's much of an air space for the first few warm-cool cycles 
> .......that works just great.
> 
> about oxygen causing more corrosion ..
> few people seem to recognize the cleverness and effectiveness of this 
> method..
> and I have been having excellent results with minimal or No cooling 
> system corrosion by adding to my coolant mixture a little bit of water 
> soluble oil ( machinist's cutting oil ) as a water pump lubricant and rust inhibitor.
> That flat works Baby !   I've only been doing it about 20 years..
> and it wasn't even my idea, I read it somewhere, a professional 
> automotive trade magazine perhaps.
> 
> If you are going to entrain, please tell us where you are going !
> scott
> www.turbovans.com
> 
> 
> On 9/14/2012 8:40 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> > Fresh water/coolant contains some amount of entrained air. After 
> > filling the heating of the coolant will drive this air out and at 
> > some point it will leave the system and be replaced with coolant in 
> > a properly operating system. Anyone experienced with large 
> > boiler/industrial heating systems knows about this and the use of 
> > air/vapor separators. It becomes more obvious in the Vanagon since 
> > there is so much capacity compared to the size of the 
> > expansion/overflow
> tanks.
> >
> > This entrained air/oxygen is why systems that regularly have coolant 
> > added end up with so much internal corrosion. Every time you add 
> > coolant water, you add fresh oxygen. This is also one of the 
> > advantages of long life coolants and why the auto/truck industry has 
> > went this way. New vehicle, get the air/oxygen out of the coolant 
> > and let it be. In 5 years/100,000 miles it will need a water pump, 
> > hose,
> heater core or maybe a head gasket anyway.
> >
> > Don't believe this works! Ask anyone on this list that owns a house 
> > with baseboard heat when the last was they changed the plain water 
> > in their boilers and baseboards?
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:56 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate
> >
> > one suggestion..
> > fill your license plate bottle with whatever coolant mixture you use.
> >
> > another is ...in my world, it takes up to 4 warm-up-cool down cycles 
> > for air to get out, coolant to get in ..
> > I 'know' proper bleeding should make that not be so ..
> > but it is anyway, in my world.
> >
> > I would never give someone a van back after touching the cooling 
> > system in any way until I had seen it go through several warm-up 
> > cool down
> cycles.
> > Period.
> >
> > re the smell...
> > it's always a good idea to smell in the left upper vent every time 
> > you park the van, as any smells...like coolant, raw gas, or burning 
> > oil will be readily apparent there.
> > At least LOOK around in the engine compartment..
> > there is always some 'residual burn off' affect...
> > coolant spilled on exhaust or the engine ....it shouldn't take 'too long'
> > though for that effect to go away.
> >
> > When you have a vanagon worked on ...
> > it's not like 'oh, it's fine now, I don't have to think about it' ..
> > No ...it's the other way around...
> > "It was just worked on ..nothing counts until I see several 
> > successful sorties go by ..
> > AND I've looked at the area worked on ...for tools left there, for 
> > loose things not tightened ...etc. etc. etc. "
> >
> > you know the old saying ....sometimes there isn't time to do it 
> > really right the first time..
> > but there's always time to do it right later.
> >
> > top up your license plate bottle to the full level line ...
> > look around the engine and under the van for any drips .
> > and really ....
> > the smart thing to do is check the cooling system for a few days 
> > after having it opened up or coolant changed.
> > I always tell people..
> > it is normal that it may pull coolant out of the license plate 
> > bottle at first ..for a few warm-up cool down cycles..
> > and guess  what else..
> > what the shop explains to the customer to empower them to operate 
> > their van successfully ..
> > is MORE IMPORTANT than the work itself !
> > in my world anyway.
> > < after all..........someone pays, they expect to get what they paid for.
> > There is no excuse for any shop to not produce that.>
> >
> > Scott
> > www.turbovans.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/14/2012 9:59 AM, Donna Skarloken wrote:
> >> Happy Friday - I just picked up my 87 Syncro last night from a 
> >> reputable garage where I had the coolant system flushed and replaced.
> >> It was late and dark so I didn't check the coolant before I left 
> >> the garage and had to drive about 25 miles home.  All seemed well, 
> >> except when I parked and shut off the motor I could smell coolant VERY strongly.
> >>
> >> This morning I was all set to go to work but decided to take a look 
> >> at the coolant level behind the license plate because that strong 
> >> coolant smell bothered me and I was unable to check it the night 
> >> before.  I discover NO coolant in the tank behind the license plate.
> >> I had to go to work so could not do a further inspection, and it 
> >> was
> still dark out.
> >>
> >> Any suggestions?
> >>
> >> I have not had any problem with low level or no coolant in this 
> >> bottle prior to taking it to the shop to have the coolant flushed.
> >> (I left a voicemail for the mechanic; he is quite busy so I am not 
> >> sure what time today that he will get back to me and of course I am 
> >> stressed out about this since I spent a whole bunch of money at 
> >> that shop this week.  The shop does specialize in Vanagons, 
> >> otherwise I would not have
> > taken there).
> >> Thanks, and have a great Friday and weekend.
> >>
> >> Donna, 87 Syncro
> >>

--
David McNeely