

| Subject: | Re: No Start Cause: Relay Failure. PICS, Thoughts. |
| From: | Scott Daniel - Turbovans |
| Date: | Wed, 6 Feb 2013 13:54:17 -0800 |
Igather that by PCBs you don't meanPolychlorinated Biphenyls <http://www.epa.gov/pcb/> On 2/6/2013 1:00 PM, David Beierl wrote: > At 03:12 PM 2/6/2013, neil n wrote: >> Thanks Dick and David. >> >> Thanks *very* much for insights into what may have happened. Yes, >> maybe that solder joint was re heated. The insulated female terminal >> from 30 to relay shows what may be a slight small burn mark. > > Well it certainly got hot enough to melt the solder around the > terminal, but that was from high resistance and arcing once the joint > had already gone bad. The flux residue around the solder pad also > suggests that it may have been reworked/reflowed -- i.e. repaired -- > previously, which is what Dick was talking about. That would have > been done on the bench and not affected the female terminal. > > >> The replacement 109 relay is a different design; the pins go directly >> to the internal parts. Which begs a question: >> >> How do I know which way the relay box goes back on the relay base? > > VW relays with PCBs have a pair of molded-in rails inside the cover, > that the board slides into to support it against overall > distortion/vibration. Failing to mount the cover in this orientation > will contribute to terminal failures. > > >> Since this was my first time at a swap (or work of this magnitude), I >> went with OEM wherever possible. I assumed the 109 relay had some more >> complex electrical "voodoo" going on so I made a point of using that >> part. Same with fuel pump relay. The ABA fuel pump relay has large >> 30-87 terminals and a small 85 terminal (ECU) so a generic relay block >> was of no use. The 109 also has the small 85 pin. IIRC, I had been >> using a relay socket for the 109 along with a separate wire to 85 pin. >> Yes. Seems so. Image: >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/PowerRelayDiagram.jpg I >> don't recall when or why I deleted this socket. > > This relay according to the diagram on the side has an additional > component (likely a diode?) wired in parallel with the activating > coil. This would likely be to protect the electronics driving the > relay from being fried by the voltage pulse when the coil is > de-energised. You'll want to know what that component is before > replacing it with a generic relay (which you otherwise could by > taking a standard relay and connecting the 86 terminal to the 30 > terminal. This particular relay is operated by switching the ground > lead rather than the hot lead of the coil. All this suggests to me > that it's being driven by an ECU output, is this correct? > >> type. They will fit a FLAPS type generic relay socket. Both the Jetta >> Power Supply and Fuel Pump relays have a suppression component >> (appears to be a resistor) in parallel on 85 and 86 so I would make >> sure a substitute relay has same. > > Ok, how specifically does it appear to be a resistor? What does it > look like, exactly? Any numbers, banded end, color bands, body > material, body color, body shape? I guess a parallel resistor could > be used to mitigate a voltage spike, I'm just not accustomed to the idea. > > Yrs, > d >
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