The air pressure gauges go crazy!
You also hear lots of air noises.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 9:44 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Why Bigger Brakes Was Cause of brake rotor warping

how does one 'watch' ABS with air brakes ?

re the other comment..

I was talkingabout modern exotic brake systems thatare considerably beyond regular ABSbrakes.

people know about modern  eletronic aids like say ....Torque Vectoring Read Differential , right ?

I'm developing a similar system for vanagons.

On 9/14/2013 4:57 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> Fun to watch ABS with air brakes.
>
> Dennis,
> >From my phone.
> ________________________________
> From: Larry Alofs<mailto:lalofs@GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: ‎9/‎14/‎2013 7:31 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: Re: Why Bigger Brakes Was Cause of brake rotor warping
>
>   ABS isn't very "super modern high tech" anymore
>
> Larry A.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Scott Daniel <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave ...
>> obviously .....one doesn't waituntil loss of control of descent speed 
>> is starting to happen.
>> I think you live in an area that does not have a lot of long or steep 
>> descents.
>>   Those two mentioned the other day are classic descents on the West 
>> coast (where there are many long chalelening descents' )
>>
>> as soon as one starts into one of those ..if thinking and at all a 
>> skilled driver ..you go right into 'long steep descent mode' ..
>> you keep speed down, you downshift etc.
>>
>>   done right ...there's never any feel of brake fade.
>> Heck ..if someone ever feels brake fade affect at all, they've 
>> already over-driven the brakes.
>> If that does happen ..you immeidately go into 'even slower more 
>> careful mode' .
>>
>> 'usually' when a truck can't control their descent speed ...they may 
>> have never built up much real speed.
>> a say 60,000 lb truck can be going 7 mph and not be able to stop. 
>> Even slowerthat that sometimes.
>>   So probably, most of thetime trucks don't fly into those gravel 
>> traps at say 60+.
>>    I think I have seen just one ever in a gravel trap ..
>> and I doubt they entered going very fast at all.
>>
>> there is a LOT one can do that's intelligent when braking any vehicle.
>> It's not just 'pushing on that pedaland seeing what happens.'
>>
>> Develope a feel for it. Use your brakes all kinds of ways that you 
>> wouldn't usually in safe places.
>> People should have an idea what their van is going to do in a panic 
>> stop situation at say 70 mph.
>> Of course people should never 'drive into' situations where there's 
>> going to be any panic stop situation.
>>   Manypeople do though ...'most drivers' are fairly clueless.
>> not montioring what's going on behind them and way behind them..
>> or WAY out in front of them ..
>> they let people fly formation on them, follow too close ..
>> drive alongside buses and trucks for miles at a time..
>> and many other dumb things ..
>>   and..
>> heck ..even in a panic stop ..it is not 'cream on the brake pedal 
>> full instaneous effort' .
>> that's good way to loose control of the vehicle.
>> Even in a 'oh crap !!' panic stop ...use 'feel' ....you want the 
>> tires ( on dry pavement ) just short of lock-up.
>>
>> if fact ...super modern high tech cars like BMW's and Mercedes can 
>> tell when the driver has freaked out and is in full panic stop mode, 
>> and will operate the breaks appropriately and much better than a 
>> paniced typical clueless driver can.
>>
>> Electro-hydrualic brakes ..all computer controlled, can do things 
>> like drag the pads very lightly on the discs in rainy conditions..to 
>> keeep the pads dry.
>> Modern cars have 'electronic brake force distribution' ..
>> the sensors and computers in the cars are working hard to get the 
>> absolute most out of the brakes.
>> Heck ....some exotic cars have carbon ceramic brakes that are an 
>> 8,000+ dollar option.
>> Those don't fade, period.
>>
>>    Just drive smart is all !  Drive within the capabilities of the 
>> vehicle and stay 'AWAY' from other cars as much as possible  - you'd
>> think people would realize this, but they don't.    One gender I am sure
>> feels better closer to other cars ...like that's more trusting and 
>> intimate driving that way ... ...something that we are not allowed to 
>> say ..but it's an actual factor.
>> I've had someone 'lock on' to me at night ..
>> on totally empty roads ..over and over ...just could not shake 'em ..
>> whether I sped up or slowed down ...every 10 minutes or so ..there'd 
>> they be ..'locked on' again ..close to me, on a totally empty 
>> deserted road. Sure enough ..it wasn't a man.
>>   try to drive AWAY from other vehicles please !  It can onlyhelp. 
>> Dense traffic is a differen story of course.
>>   And even then people don't see how to 'control and defend their 
>> position' intelligently in the whole mass.
>>
>> besafe !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/14/2013 6:42 AM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>
>>> Well Scott, what does one do if the brakes are overheated, but not 
>>> using them will result in uncontrollable speed?  I have never had 
>>> this situation, though I have driven on some several mile long, 
>>> steep grades.  But some people have.  Truckers certainly have faced 
>>> that situation, to the point that highways are equipped with runaway 
>>> truck ramps.  I can sure imagine the fear involved in having to pull 
>>> into one of those things!  mcneely
>>>
>>> ---- Scott Daniel <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I hope everyone recognizes it's better to cool brakes by driving 
>>>> and not using them, then to just stop with very hot brakes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/13/2013 8:29 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---- Mike Miller <mwmiller6@ATT.NET> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I certainly didn't do it on purpose. In both cases when it 
>>>>>> happened I just didn't think it would, but there was never a 
>>>>>> place to get off the brakes and let them cool. Constant downgrade and suddenly overheated!
>>>>>>
>>>>> What gear were you in?  Was there a place to stop?  Maybe not, on 
>>>>> some mountain roads there is no place to pull over.  But in a low 
>>>>> gear one is usually able to keep the speed down enough to rest the brakes sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:54 PM, <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   ---- Mike Miller <mwmiller6@ATT.NET> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Haven't had to gear down yet, but I haven't gone over those two 
>>>>>>>> roads again either
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have to be on brutally downhill roads to gear down and 
>>>>>>> avoid excessive braking.  I have never overheated brakes, and I don't intend to.
>>>>>>>   mcneely
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> David McNeely
>>>>>
>>>>>   --
>>> David McNeely
>>>
>>>