However I had a Vanagon set on the road to ruin by a daughter who added water and then antifreeze in an approximate 50/50 mix. She didn't run the engine and the pure water that was trapped in the rear heater box ruined the core and the valve. 

Ya gotta mix it somehow. 

Jim 

> On Dec 11, 2013, at 1:45 AM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> 
>       I'm afraid I'm going to have to second most of what Scott said ~ I
> always 50/50 premix my Eng'Coolent with distilled H2O no matter where
> I happen to be living or mixing it ~ so that there is no question
> about what is flowing through the CoolingSystem of the Vehicles I work
> on &Also because distilled H2O by it self has a significantly lower
> FreezingPoint then normal "Contaminated" tap H2O ~~ But ~~ I would
> certainly never Rudely BeLittle someone for not doing things the way I
> do them ~~
>       Steve ~ I do hope that you get your 88BlueStarProject issues sorted
> out & that we can be of some help ~
> 
>                                                                       ORR ~ DeanB
> 
>> On 10 Dec , 2013, at 9:49 PM, Scott Daniel wrote:
>> 
>> Whew.....I must protest about the semi-insulting 'you message' the
>> post
>> below starts with.
>> 
>> and ..now to the tech side..
>> fwiw ...sure ..I suppose if it's desperatately freezing and a-frz and
>> water doesn't get a chance to mix well...one could have issues with
>> water freezing ...though in my exerience that's pretty unlikely.
>> 
>> and sure ..ideally one mixes carefully measured amounts of H20 and A-
>> frz
>> in a container..mixes it well, then pours that into the engine.
>> It's usually not say 15 degrees where I am ( it is now though ) ..so
>> it's less critical usually.
>> and ...
>> myself ........enjoying effective low tech methods...I often pour a-
>> frz
>> for a count of 10,
>> then to the same count with H20.
>> that will get close enough to 50/50 just fine.
>> 
>> And it's not like it 'has to be very accurate about the 50/50
>> proportions..the tolerance range on that is huge..
>> unless you really expect way below zero temps.
>> ( 50-50 protects against freezing to 34 below zero F...way more
>> anti-freezing protection than we need.......so there's lots of slack
>> in
>> that mixture formula. )
>> 
>> I am sorry ...
>> a-frz and water mix super easily ..very high affinity for each
>> other. I
>> can not imagine H20 and a-frz not mixing readily and easily.
>> I have only put a-frz and water into engines.......
>> including fresh rebuilt empty ones about 10,000 times...and that may
>> not
>> be that big an exaggeration even. Like since 1964 and I have worked on
>> tens of thousands of cars...on 30 different makes etc.
>> 
>> Being on the west coast almost forever where hard water is not an
>> issue..
>> I tend to not comment on people's recommendations where their water
>> may be hard.
>> 
>> I'm a total nut about corrosion too ...
>> can't stand it at all.  Heck ...half of what I do on vanagons is about
>> addressing corrosion.
>> I have never had a problem, on the West Coast, using clean tap water.
>> And never had a-frz and H20  that did not instantly mix .
>> 
>> well....it's known that the silcates in VW's blue phosphate-free a-
>> frz (
>> now replacded by something else ) ..that the silcates could be rough
>> on
>> water pumps..right ?
>> 
>> of course ...one should make sure all the pipes and hoses are intact
>> before filling and running..!
>> just a flukey goof up , no big deal. :-)
>> 
>> Everyone has their own methods of course..
>> and as long as they produce 'the result' ......great, that's what
>> matters.
>> Personally ...I would suggest to give advice and guidance ....but try
>> not to instill fear because someone didn't do something the 4000 %
>> perfect german 'factory' way.  These are not Ferrari's.
>> 
>> People need to not do dumb or sloppy things of course..
>> but not recognizing that there is leeway here and there....I can't
>> support that really.
>> 
>> Here's what turns me on in car repair ..
>> 'all brand new and expensive' ..doesn't really impress me.  I think
>> that
>> is often wasteful .
>> I am really not impressed with sloppy bad work at all.
>> 
>> what impresses me is 'doing just the right thing'...no more or less
>> than
>> what will produce an excellent result at the most favorable cost and
>> effort expenditure.
>> 
>> here's one of my sayings ..a real sign  of Mastery is expending
>> exactly
>> the amount of energy, and no  more than is needed accomplish the  task
>> at hand.
>> 
>> some readers may appreciate this relative to that ..in Judo, I've
>> heard
>> that it's boring to watch masters compete against each other ..because
>> their movements are so subtle ..not huge efforts or thrashing around
>> ........just subtle applications of exactly the right energy , and
>> no more.
>> 
>> Let's talk about the Psychic Healing factor on Vanagons sometime..
>> or repairs performed remotely purely with mental power. ( which is
>> why I
>> always want to know WHERE the frick something is ..because I am
>> already
>> thinking about what it might need.
>> and like a pshchic ...knowing the location helps a lot.
>> and ..a bitch here...I see constantly that in modern times people are
>> 'autistic' where anything to do with Location is concerned.
>> Chronically .
>> Like "how much is shipping on that part ?  but I won't say to where.'
>> are people getting dumber ???   I think they are.
>> and anti-frz and water can't help mixing very easily.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/10/2013 5:29 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>> It seems you may be trying real hard to mess this up. Since it is
>>> winter you
>>> should not be adding antifreeze and water separately. Even after
>>> you do get
>>> the engine running the water can stay separated for quite a while
>>> and the
>>> water slugs will freeze. So can the undiluted antifreeze. Yes,
>>> antifreeze
>>> needs to mix water for at least a 70-30 mix or it can become a
>>> slushy mess
>>> and keep the cooling system from working. Then if you are in an
>>> area with
>>> hard water you should not use that in your engine. Regardless of
>>> type of
>>> antifreeze hard water over time will do the most damage. The minerals
>>> precipitate out and the abrasive characteristics will eat water
>>> pump seals
>>> wear out heater cores from the inside out.
>>> 
>>> When you get ready to try this again get a helper if can. You want
>>> to start
>>> the engine, hold it at 1,800 to 2,000 rpm and add coolant as the
>>> water pump
>>> sucks it down. Your helper can watch the bleeder at the radiator.
>>> There
>>> should be coolant at the bleeder in 30 seconds to a minute. Once it
>>> flows,
>>> close the bleeder, top off the tank, install the cap, and then let
>>> the
>>> engine return to idle. This should all be done before the engine
>>> warms. Any
>>> air left will self bleed unless there is a problem.
>>> 
>>> Dennis
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Steve Cotsford
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:08 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: More questions pertaining to my 88 model Bluestar
>>> project
>>> 
>>> Well today I bought antifreeze and started putting it in.   I was
>>> able to
>>> put in 2 quarts and about 2 quarts or water.   I removed the screw
>>> from the
>>> top of the radiator and ran the engine to circulate the coolant.
>>> I was
>>> somewhat surprised that I could not put any more in and I was
>>> expecting
>>> something from the top of the radiator .  The engine was running
>>> nicely.
>>> Then all of a sudden I heard a pop and antifreeze hit the ground up
>>> the
>>> front with a little water vapour so I turned every thing off.    It
>>> seemed
>>> pretty clear that coolant was circulating as I could feel all the
>>> hoses had
>>> warmed up and the engine seemed pretty smooth.
>>> I looked under the front and saw coolant so I lowered the spare
>>> tire tray
>>> and got the tire out.    It soon became apparent.    Back in May
>>> when I
>>> installed the engine I was under the van and checked out a lot of
>>> things.
>>> In my six months of clinics and convalescing however I had not
>>> thought too
>>> much about it.   I had not dropped the spare tire tray
>>> before.       It
>>> turns out that both the hoses that take coolant to the radiator and
>>> back to
>>> the engine were totally missing and plastic caps had been shoved
>>> onto the
>>> pipe ends.    The pop that I had heard was not the rad that had
>>> burst, but
>>> one of the caps coming off the coolant pipe.      Call me naive if
>>> you want
>>> but it had not occurred to me that the hoses would be totally
>>> missing !!.
>>> I had expected eventually a hose in poor condition and my visual tour
>>> underneath had seen nothing so I thought it was safe to fill the
>>> system with
>>> coolant and antifreeze.    I was seriously wrong !     Oh well.
>>> At least
>>> the rad has not burst....yet and its no wonder that nothing had
>>> come out of
>>> the top of the rad seeing that nothing had gone in the bottom.
>>> Time to
>>> get some parts on order and fully check the front end of the system
>>> and
>>> everything in that area.   I saw an electrical fan behind the
>>> radiator and
>>> there is a silver nipple naked on the back of the motor.   Time to
>>> study
>>> more stuff.      Steve
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Neil N wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Larrys roadhaus link may help (this is for shops but may provide
>>>> lead?)
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.roadhaus.com/shops.php
>>>> 
>>>> Can Vanagon samba members be searched by location? If so, maybe
>>>> leads
>>>> that way too?
>>>> 
>>>> Neil.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/9/13, Steve Cotsford <cotsford@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anyone know Vanagon parts sources and gurus, here in the
>>>>> southeast?
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Neil n
>>>> 
>>>> Blog: tubaneil.blogspot.ca
>>>> 
>>>> '88 Westy http://tinyurl.com/c8rlw6p
>>>> 
>>>> '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"  http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>>> 
>>>> Vanagon VAG *Gas* inline-VR Engine Swap Group:
>>>> 
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/d7gd5ej