Interesting point about force and bearings.

With aluminum blocks like the WBX, I don't believe in doing bearing jobs without full line boring- hence why I say, don't pull the rods to get the pistons out. 

In your opinion.  Would bearings survive the force of a worn out case?

I can't speak from experience.  I've only ever done top end rebuilds on WBXers.

-Derek
mobile

> On Dec 10, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Scott, you must have been out the day they studied that in physics. The
> force on the rod bearing is whatever it takes to move the wrist pin. It
> does not matter how the force is applied.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Scott Daniel <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>wrote:
> 
>> I agree..I sure wouldn't use any slide hammer..too rough on the rod
>> bearings.
>> I just heat the wrist pin boss area of the piston ..
>> 'usually' the wrist pin will slide right out then..
>> carb cleaner can help eat carbon there too sometimes.
>> 
>> if there is one area you want really really *right* .it's the rings, rod
>> brgs, wrist pins , and wrist pin clips. ...all that.
>> Intense perfection and meticulous workmanship is what you want here..
>> you don't want to think about this area of the engine again for a good
>> while.
>> heads are relatively easy to re-do if you have to.  Rings ..not.
>>  and besides..
>> 'Projects  grow' ...sometimes it's 'well ...I've come this far ..
>> might as well inspect the rod bearings and put new ones in" ...which is
>> fiddly to do with assembled cases ...
>> 
>> But, ..if you have new rod brgs with proper oil clearance..( plastigauge )
>> you're good there for a long long time on a 1.9 usually.  It's just a
>> very bothersome task.
>> 
>> Piston with new rings is best installed into top of the barrel, as stated.
>> 
>> need a 1.9 bottom end to practice or play with ?
>> I have half a dozen at least.
>> scott
>> southern Oregon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/9/2013 2:46 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>> 
>>> Please don't use a slide hammer to pull the piston pins. You really need
>>> the
>>> reamer to break the carbon ridge in the pin bore. On the waterboxers the
>>> pins can slide right out.
>>> 
>>> If the oil control rings are the three piece type you really need to pull
>>> the pistons and insert from the top of the cylinders. Too risky to get
>>> those
>>> in. If the older cast type oil controls rings are used you should be able
>>> to
>>> work the rings in while sliding the cylinder over the top. A thin steel
>>> band
>>> can be fabed and pinched together with needle nose vise grips to get the
>>> rings started and ten pulled out before pushing the cylinder all the way
>>> down.  I just now plan to pull the pistons whenever the heads come off.
>>> Only
>>> adds a few hours to the job and gives a reason to replace the water pump.
>>> 
>>> Dennis
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Jim Felder
>>> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2013 2:46 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: compressing piston rings in engine
>>> 
>>> Derek,
>>> 
>>> I have used a home-made rig like that, but with an inertia puller.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Derek Burgess <ddb.graphic@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Tom,
>>>> Im not suggesting you remove the rods.  I know some people say to, but
>>>> to me, then you have a bearing job better left to when you split the
>>>> case!
>>>> 
>>>> Rods still attached.
>>>> Remove the circlip's that hold the wrist pins.
>>>> Then remove the wrist pins using a tool like this
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzp43gekwjteg5y/photo.JPG
>>>> 
>>>> Ignore the fact that the piston/rod are out of the case in this photo,
>>>> it can be done with them in the case.
>>>> 
>>>> I've seen it called a piston pin puller, the Bentley actually shows a
>>>> special VW tool to use, but I have never seen one in the wild- I made
>>>> the one in my photo from Home Depot parts- It works, I have used it twice
>>> now.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Derek
>>>> 1990 GL Automatic "Vikki"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Tom Carchrae <tom@carchrae.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks Derek, that option has been glaring at me and it is looking
>>>>> ever more appealing.  This route looks pretty straightforward too:
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBQTkPh_SQ  (until you drop the nut)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tom
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Derek Burgess
>>>>> <ddb.graphic@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know this isn't a direct answer to your question: but it's really
>>>>>> alot easier to pull the pistons, get them into the cylinders on a
>>>>>> bench and then install the two together.  I think pulling circlip's
>>>>>> and piston pins
>>>>> much
>>>> 
>>>>> easier than trying to push a cylinder down over a piston still
>>>>>> attached
>>>>> to
>>>> 
>>>>> the rod.  Use rags to clog the cylinder bores, do not want circlips
>>>>> flying
>>>> 
>>>>> down into the block.. "would not be funny" -Ben
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Derek
>>>>>> 1990 GL Automatic "Vikki"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Tom Carchrae <tom@carchrae.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear List,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am trying to get the rings compressed (with pistons attached to
>>>>>>> rods
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> engine in the car).  I am currently in practice mode - using the
>>>>>>> old
>>>>>> rings
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> but I am finding, as warned, this is bloody tricky.  Not to
>>>>>>> mention it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> getting awfully cold outside - my hands nearly froze to the
>>>>>>> cylinders yesterday (I am now storing them inside).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Some observations:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1) I have a standard blue steel compressor:
>>>>>>> http://goo.gl/Eapbve(which has now been cut down as slim (width)
>>>>>>> as possible, thereby removing a
>>>>>> strip
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> of steel that I could also use with a hose clamp) and it very
>>>>>>> nearly
>>>>>> fits
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (or maybe not) in the tight space between the water jacket and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> sleeve.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  If you've used one in this scenario, where did you locate the
>>>>>> compressor
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ratchet mechanism when doing the last cylinder: top, bottom, side?
>>>>>>  The
>>>> 
>>>>> bottom seems to nearly work.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2) Even if I were to get the standard compressor to fit, how on
>>>>>>> earth
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I remove it?  I would need to unwind it all the way and slide it
>>>>>>> out I guess?  Or unwind it so it fits around the cylinder?  I can
>>>>>>> see being
>>>>>> able
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> to do that on the first cylinder, but that seems practically
>>>>>> impossible
>>>> 
>>>>> on
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the second one when there is no room.  If you've used the
>>>>>>> compressor
>>>>>> (hi
>>>> 
>>>>> Alistair!), which route did you go?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 3) It seems that the VW specific ring tool ( http://goo.gl/RdkUEp
>>>>>>> )
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> be much easier to remove (but looks like fun job to get it to
>>>>>> compress).
>>>> 
>>>>>  Alas, while it ranges from $5-10, it seems to be out of stock in
>>>>>> Canada
>>>> 
>>>>> and about $30-40 to ship.  Bah.  I'm considering making one from
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> steel
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I cut from the compressor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 4) I really liked the zip tie then cut idea from Angus Gordon.  I
>>>>>> have a
>>>> 
>>>>> hose clamp, but tightening it would seem quite difficult.  I
>>>>>>> presume
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the way you would tighten a hose clamp is by going in the same
>>>>>>> access
>>>>>> hole
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (water pump/pipes holes) when you are doing the last cylinder?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 5) It seems the sensible order to attach cylinders  would be
>>>>>>> first the
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> on the rear/flywheel side and then follow by front/pulley side.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am considering dropping the engine, if only so I can (a) get
>>>>>>> better access, (b) haul the engine inside to be warmer or god
>>>>>>> forbid (c)
>>>>>> admit
>>>> 
>>>>> defeat and take it to a shop who will roll eyes, cluck, and then
>>>>>> likely
>>>> 
>>>>> punish me for my arrogance.  I guess most VW mechanics are used
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>> some
>>>> 
>>>>> of
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As always, thanks in advance for any illumination.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>