

| Subject: | Re: [OT] Efficiency of electric heaters? |
| From: | Edward Maglott |
| Date: | Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:12:08 -0500 |
Here's an energy cost calculator I've enjoyed over the years: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/ I have a high efficiency forced air gas furnace. The un-insulated ducts for it run through unheated basement though. I also have my electric service on "time of use metering." So depending on the time of day and day of week my electricity is either about $.16/kwh or $.06/kwh. At the low electric rate, that was cheaper last time I checked, including a little fudge factor for loss through those ducts. I have a portable heat pump thing that claims to get 12,200 BTU out of 9.7amps. It connects to a window to use outside air for it's heat exchange. So that's an even better deal for btu/electric watts. btw, over the long term, I save about 23% on my electricity with the time of use metering. Edward At 05:37 PM 12/9/2013, you wrote: >Depending where you live electric heat can be extremely expensive or >reasonable. Here on Long Island we pay close to $0.20/kwhr. However, with >oil near $4.00/gallon it may not be a bargain. One kwh of electric heat >produces ~3,412 Btu/hr. of heat. 100,000 Btu/hr. requires 29.31 kw/hr. If >you are paying $0.10/Kwh that 100,000 btu/hr. only costs $2.91. A gallon of >fuel oil is ~138k/btu. So you would need .7246 gallon to produce 100,000 >btu. Now consider that even if you were to get 85% efficiency you really >need .853 gallons. At $4.00/gallon that same heat in oil really costs $3.40. >Add the cost of the pumps, blowers, controls, equipment investment and >maintenance oil heat may not be a bargain. To compare natural gas heat look >at your bill. Likely you are looking at some cubic feet or therms number. >Both equate to about 100,00 btu. Gas is usually more efficient especially >with modern equipment so maybe use 90% as your efficiency factor. Buying a >new home you want gas heat. As for propane that gives about 96,000 >btu/gallon. Also use 90% for your efficiency and do the math from there. > >The trick of using portable electric heaters for most is the ability to keep >the whole house cooler and just heat the room(s) that need a bit extra or >only when they are occupied. As for which ones work best it does come down >to preference and intended use. > >Dennis > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of >Dick Wong >Sent: Monday, December 9, 2013 1:01 PM >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >Subject: Re: [OT] Efficiency of electric heaters? > >Yes, 1500W in an electric heater is 1500W. The units is sitting inside the >room, so all the heat that is generated, whether it is blown out with the >fan, radiated into the room, heated by an inefficient fan motor or is coming >off of the overheated power cord ;-), still contributes to the room. > If your room is drafty, poorly insulated or has a very high ceiling, the >air that is heated is short lived or floats away. The fan units primarily >heat the air. The radiant units primarily heat the objects (people). The >radiator (oil) style devices do a combination of both (and can be slow to >get going). > >You may feel warmer (or at least the one or two body parts) when you are in >front of the radiant heater, but as soon as you move away, it's gone. > Since the fan units heat the air, the whole room feels warmer, but it takes >longer to heat all of that air. A radiant heater gives you localized >heating, i.e., hot spots. > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :-) > >Stay warm in Oregon. It's cold here in the mid-section of California too. > >-Dick- >87 Vanagon Syncro (Blaze) > > >On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Larry Alofs <lalofs@gmail.com> wrote: > > > The electrical energy 'consumed" by the fan also ends up as heat. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Jeff Palmer <jpalmer@mymts.net> wrote: > > > > > I would say this is on topic. Lots of us use electric heaters to > > > supplement. Much cheaper than Propex :) My two cents from a guy > > > living in -30 weather: > > > Electricity is 100% efficient (or close) regardless of the fixture, > > > but > > it > > > may or may not be price competitive with less efficient heaters that > > > use different fuel. I think? > > > I prefer radiant heat - much more comfortable and stable. And > > > quiet. I would think the nasty fan on some electric heaters must > > > consume extra > > power > > > too. Love my oil filled unit. > > > Jeff > > > > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 07:59:19 -0800 > > > > From: camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM > > > > Subject: [OT] Efficiency of electric heaters? > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > (This is not Vanagon-related but I don't know another pool of > > > > engineers and scientists to write to, so I'm writing here for > > > > help.) > > > > > > > > It's pretty cold here in Bend, Oregon, and the house that her son > > > > is renting is colder than he'd like. It's an older house, built > > > > cheaply, and only has electric baseboard heaters -- no gas, no >fireplace. > > > > > > > > Mrs Elliott has been looking at electric heaters and asks whether > > > > some put out more heat than others. "1500 Watts is 1500 Watts, > > > > same BTUs" I > > > sez. > > > > > > > > I sez, "It doesn't matter whether the heating elements are fifteen > > > > one-hundred Watt light bulbs, or whether the heating elements are > > > > put > > in > > > > an oil bath; it doesn't matter whether they write the words `infrared' > > > > or `quartz' on the enclosure: you'll put the same heat into the room. > > > > All heaters are alike in terms of heat output. > > > > > > > > "Sure, an infrared heater can be `aimed' directly at your body, > > > > which > > is > > > > real nice; and others have blowers that can direct the heated air > > > > and stir the air to keep the colder air from pooling on the floor, > > > > but in terms of how warm the overall air in the room eventually > > > > gets, all 1500 Watt heaters are the same." > > > > > > > > That's what I sez. But she knows I'm a bit of an idiot sometimes > > > > and is tempted by expensive 1500 Watt heaters, thinking there must > > > > be a reason why they promote this quartz or that oil-filled > > > > feature. She points out that when you turn off an oil-filled > > > > heater, it still radiates heat for quite some time afterwards; I > > > > point out that the slow cooling is > > matched > > > > by slower warming. > > > > > > > > Can the engineers and scientists in the room comment on this > > > > matter? So that This Marriage Can Be Saved? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. > > > > > > > > (Probably don't want to clutter up the list with this, please > > > > email to me directly.) > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott > > > > 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, > > > > Bend, Ore. > > > > > > > >
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