

| Subject: | Re: Van Dies while in motion |
| From: | Anthony Boscolo |
| Date: | Sun, 22 Dec 2013 08:55:07 -0800 |
Thanks all for the responses. I really appreciate it. I haven't had a chance to dig too deeply yet but I have figured some stuff out. The battery seems good. After pulling the cover off the steering column, I tried to disconnect the wiring harness from the ignition...which didn't come easily. Rather than pulling so hard as to break something I had a closer look. It looks like the wiring harness has melted a bit (the little black piece with all the wires is slightly deformed and appears to have melted). I didn't have much in the way of tools with me and I didn't feel like digging any deeper with out disconnecting the battery...so I pretty much stopped and began working on a getting a tow. That is as far as I got on the project. I will dig a bit deeper once I get the van back home tonight. I let yall know how it goes. On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>wrote: > Dear enerwise > > As my good friend Stalaslous says - > Yuh I luvs dis vheel ting - but vhill vhe akcjuile goes much fastur- den > vhe deed on sleds ? > Faster den dat hoars? > Laughing - he concludes - den vhe past hour shelves...:) > > Regards > > On Saturday, December 21, 2013, Keith Hughes wrote: > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 20:56:20 -0800 > > From: Stuart <ve3smf@YAHOO.COM <javascript:;>> > > Subject: Re: Van Dies while in motion > > > > Ref:=C2=A0 > > http://ecmweb.com/design/highs-and-lows-motor-voltage=0A=C2=A0= > > =0A"To drive a fixed mechanical load connected to the shaft, > > a motor must d= > > raw a fixed amount of power from the line. The amount of > > power the motor dr= > > aws has a rough correlation to the voltage 2current (amps). > > Thus, when volt= > > age gets low, the current must increase to provide the same > > amount of power= > > . "=0A=C2=A0=0A"The Highs and Lows of Motor Voltage=0AMay 1, > > 2000 12:00 PM,= > > By Ed Cowern, P.E.=0AOperating a motor at the "outer > > limits" of its voltag= > > e requirements reduces its efficiency and causes premature > > failure.=0AThe e= > > conomic loss from premature motor failure is devastating. In > > most cases, th= > > e price of the motor itself is trivial compared to the cost > > of unscheduled = > > shutdowns of processes. Both high and low voltages can cause > > premature moto= > > r failure, as will voltage imbalance. Here, we'll look at > > the effects of lo= > > w and high voltage on motors and the related performance > > changes you can ex= > > pect when you use voltages other than those noted on the > > nameplate.=0AEffec= > > ts of low voltage. When you subject a motor to voltages > > below the nameplate= > > rating, some of the motor's characteristics will change > > slightly and other= > > s will change dramatically. To drive a fixed mechanical load > > connected to t= > > he shaft, a motor must draw a fixed amount of power from the > > line. The amou= > > nt of power the motor draws has a rough correlation to the > > voltage 2current= > > (amps). Thus, when voltage gets low, the current must > > increase to provide = > > the same amount of power. An increase in current is a danger > > to the motor o= > > nly if that current exceeds the motor's nameplate current > > rating. When amps= > > go above the nameplate rating, heat begins to build up in > > the motor. Witho= > > ut a timely correction, this heat will damage the motor. The > > more heat and = > > the longer the exposure to it, the more damage to the > > motor."=0A=0AAnother = > > source from the same author...=0A=0ARef:=C2=A0 > > http://www.motorsanddrives.c= > > om/cowern/motorterms12.html=0A=0A" =0ALOW VOLTAGE=0AWhen > > electric motors ar= > > e subjected to voltages, below the nameplate rating, some of > > the characteri= > > stics will change slightly and others will change more > > dramatically. A basi= > > c point is, to drive a fixed mechanical load connected to > > the shaft, a moto= > > r must draw a fixed amount of power from the power line. The > > amount of powe= > > r the motor draws is roughly related to the voltage times > > current (amps). T= > > hus, when voltage gets low, the current must get higher to > > provide the same= > > amount of power. The fact that current gets higher is not > > alarming unless = > > it exceeds the nameplate current rating of the motor. When > > amps go above th= > > e nameplate rating, it is safe to assume that the buildup of > > heat within th= > > e motor will become damaging if it is left unchecked. If a > > motor is lightly= > > loaded and the voltage drops, the current will increase in > > roughly the sam= > > e proportion that the voltage decreases.=0AFor example, a > > 10% voltage decre= > > ase would cause a 10% amperage increase. This would not be > > damaging if the = > > motor current stays below the nameplate value. However, if a > > motor is heavi= > > ly loaded and a voltage reduction occurs, the current would > > go up from a fa= > > irly high value to a new value which might be in excess of > > the full load ra= > > ted amps. This could be damaging. It can be safely said that > > low voltage in= > > itself is not a problem unless the motor amperage is pushed > > beyond the nam= > > eplate rating.=0A=C2=A0=0AAside from the possibility of > > over-temperature an= > > d shortened life created by low voltage, some other > > important items need to= > > be understood. The first is that the starting torque, > > pull-up torque, and = > > pull-out torque of induction motors, all change based on the > > applied voltag= > > e squared . Thus, a 10% reduction from nameplate voltage > > (100% to 90%, 230 = > > volts to 207 volts) would reduce the starting torque, > > pull-up torque, and p= > > ull-out torque by a factor of .9 x .9. The resulting values > > would be 81% of= > > the full voltage values. At 80% voltage, the result would > > be .8 x .8, or a= > > value of 64% of the full voltage value.=0A=C2=A0=0AIn this > > case, it is eas= > > y to see why it would be difficult to start > > =E2=80=9Chard-to-start=E2=80=9D= > > loads if the voltage happens to be low. Similarly the > > motor=E2=80=99s pull= > > -out torque would be much lower than it would be under > > normal voltage condi= > > tions.=0A=C2=A0=0ATo summarize the situation, low voltage > > can cause high cu= > > rrents and overheating which will subsequently shorten motor > > life. Low volt= > > age can also reduce the motor=E2=80=99s ability to get > > started and its valu= > > es of pull-up and pull-out torque. On lightly loaded motors > > with easy-to-st= > > art loads, reducing the voltage will not have any > > appreciable effect except= > > that it might help reduce the light load losses and improve > > the efficiency= > > under this condition. This is the principle that is used in > > the so-called = > > Nola devices that are sold as efficiency improving add-on > > equipment to moto= > > rs."=C2=A0=0ALook at the digram in the article.=C2=A0 You > > can see with a re= > > duction in voltage, you get a corresponding increase in > > current.=C2=A0 In t= > > he given case, I suspect that the battery and/or the > > alternator failed, wit= > > h a resulting=C2=A0 voltage drop.=C2=A0 With several high > > power devices, su= > > ch as fans and lights, the current demands on the wiring > > would have gone up= > > .=C2=A0 Perhaps this caused overheating of the switch and > > system failure.= > > =C2=A0 This will only be answered when the original poster > > tells what devic= > > es failed.=C2=A0 State of the battery, alternator, switch > > and other wirng.= > > =0A=0AWhat do you think happened?=C2=A0 Your > > thoughts......=0A=0ACheers!=0A= > > Stuart=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Larry > > Alofs <lalofs@gm= > > ail.com>=0ATo: Stuart <ve3smf@yahoo.com <javascript:;>> > > =0ACc: vanagonlist a <vanagon@gerr= > > y.vanagon.com> =0ASent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 > > 10:33:59 PM=0ASubject: = > > Re: Van Dies while in motion=0A=0A=0A=0AStuart, =0A=C2=A0 > > I'm afraid you ar= > > e too far out on your limb. =C2=A0Your basic starting point > > that any device= > > will use a fixed amount of power is incorrect.=0AThat makes > > the rest of yo= > > ur argument and conclusions false.=0A=C2=A0 I am wondering > > where you came u= > > p with that premise.=0A=0ALarry A. > > > > Stuart, you are citing information for *A/C* motors. DC motors, and > other > > resistive loads do not have power factors, and operate under simple Ohm's > > Laws. A DC motor has a fixed (abeit temperature variant to a degree) > > internal resistance, and when voltage drops, it will respond according to > > the relationship E=IR. R is fixed, thus when E drops, I drops as well. > > Power dissipation (Volt-Amps, i.e. E*I) decreases as voltage decreases. > If > > DC power were invariant as you claim, then a headlamp bulb would glow > with > > the same luminosity at 1 VDC as at 14VDC. > > > > Keith Hughes > > '86 Westy Tiico (Marvin) > > > > > -- > roger whittaker 604.414.6266 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.tvthatworks.com > http://www.tvpowellriver.com > Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/ > View the growing list of video work at: > http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u > http://vimeo.com/42309497 > > http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt > -- Anthony Boscolo | 206.794.1727 | abosail@gmail.com
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