

| Subject: | Re: Brakes- the saga continues |
| From: | Alistair Bell |
| Date: | Thu, 1 May 2014 08:01:09 -0700 |
I can't comment on compressibility of fluid with large bubbles versus micro bubbles of air, but I do know that brake fluid does , or can, have air dissolved in it. Not to be confused with bubbles, which is entrapped air. Alistair > On May 1, 2014, at 7:23 AM, Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > One big advantage of the vacuum method is that microscopic bubbles > expand under vacuum, causing them to flocculate faster and rise to the > top sooner. I've noticed with pressure bleeding it can take some time > to get microscopic air out of the system. If you watch fluid through a > clear tube you see cloudy brake fluid coming out under pressure, but > that just means microscopic air bubbles are incorporated in the fluid. > > As a wild guess, I would say that one large bubble has more > compressibility than a million small bubbles totaling the same volume > of air. That would explain why your Vanagon's brakes feel fine > immediately after bleeding but a few days later they are all squishy. > This has happened to me several times and is something of a mystery. > Someone more versed in physics could dig up the facts, I nominate > Alistair Bell. > > -- Gnarlie > > > >> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Mike B <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote: >> Regarding the brake bleeding process. It all depends on you method used. >> If you use a Motive pressure bleeder, it's a simple one-man process, >> and it's hard to "do it wrong". >> If you use a vacuum hand-held, hand operated brake suction device, >> you need to grease the threads of each bleeder to prevent suction of air >> through the threads, but otherwise, it's also pretty hard to "do it wrong". >> If you do it the old-fashioned 2-man way, there's a way to do it >> wrong and a way to do it right. The right way to do it is to attach an >> 18" rubber hose to the bleeder and put it in a small plastic or glass >> jar with a inch or so of brake fluid in it. (you could also buy a '1-man >> brake bleeder' tool, which is basically this). One guy does the pump >> and hold on the pedal, while the other guy opens the bleeder and watches >> the fluid/ air squirting into the jar. Repeat on each wheel until >> there's no more bubbles, being sure to stop every so often to check that >> the reservoir isn't getting too low. Use 3 sharp quick pedal strokes to >> force air from all of it's hiding places, then hold until instructed to >> let go by the guy manning the bleeders. Start at the farthest away >> (right rear), then move to the next farthest bleeder (left rear), then >> right front, then left front. You may need to go around them two or >> three times to get it all, and a hard pedal with no squishiness is an >> indicator that you're done. Be sure to do enough to clean all of the old >> dark fluid out and replace it with fresh clear fluid. >> If you do it without the jar and hose, you will make a mess of >> spilled fluid everywhere (it eats paint!), have lots of problems (like >> Don mentions) and depending on your methods and procedures, you may not >> be able to get every last bubble of air out of the system. >> >> Mike B. >> >> >>> On 5/1/2014 9:17 AM, Don Hanson wrote: >>> >>> Squshy brakes: Bleeding the system carefully should stop that. >>> "Carefully" being the operative word...Brake bleeding is intolerant of >>> sloppy or slipshod work....any lapse at all during the brake bleeding >>> process can render the whole procedure a waste of time...It can be a >>> tedious job, relatively simple in concept but one that demands you make no >>> mistakes along the way...It takes a fraction of a second of inattention to >>> allow a bit of air to enter the hydraulics...a very very small bubble of >>> air anywhere in the system will cause the spongy brake pedal feel.. >>> >>> Another symptom you may be encountering here is warped rotors, >>> oscillating as the wheel turns, a wobble that pushs the brake pistons way >>> back into calipers. So rather than an actual 'soft pedal' from air in >>> the >>> system, you may be needing to give the brakes a few pumps to move that >>> brake pad back to where it will actually grip the warped rotor...
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