In my 88 GL, I never failed to get to where I  wanted to go because of
tire, traction and weight distribution - except the one spin-out in the
middle of the hill on a snowy day in Alaska. A quick change to studded
tires fixed that.

There have been times life would have been easier with a posi-traction
rear end.

John

On 6/11/2014 12:01 AM, Don Hanson wrote:
>    All Westies except the beetle....hmmm...maybe I should put in the rear
> closet and the second story balcony into my tin top...
>
>     On not making it over rocks....I do ok with that on my stock 14" steel
> wheels, as long as I keep up a good pace and don't stop on anything
> slippery when pointed uphill...or anything deep and soft on the level...  I
> can drive around the lack of traction but I have to be more careful than in
> most other vehicles I have owned....
>
> A Vanagon should not be called "ok for traction" when it's often spinning
> it's wheels on wet grass lawns that are very slightly uphill, right?
> Worse in reverse, but even in my almost compound low first gear 5sp and
> super careful clutch modulation, unless I have ballast in the way back...it
> is likely to just sit there with one wheel turning..    My uphill driveway
> in the snow is as exciting to try to negotiate as a lap of Willow Springs
> racetrack was in my Porsche race car....You gotta balance speed with
> control and catch the rear end all the way up while feathering the throttle
> and trying to conserve as much speed as possible....I often crest at about
> 1mph with the revs going up and down as I try to re-gain traction...
>
>    I too have had lots of Volkswagens and most were outstanding for
> traction...not the vanagon.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 6:55 PM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>          I find this conversation to be quite interesting ~ I have only had
>> 4 RearEng' Vehicles in my 54Yrs of driving ~ a 73SuperBeatle ~ a 76Westy ~
>> an 83.5Westy ~ a 90Westy ~ All were 2(1)wd & I can Honestly say that I
>> never ever felt like they were TractionChallenged & I took all 4 of those
>> Vehicles to many places in NM, CO, UT that a lot of folks would not even
>> dream any StreetVehicle could go ~ I did always run BFG AllTerrainRadial
>> 27x8.50 14s on the Rear of the 76 & 83.5 Westys & up until a Couple of Yrs
>> ago the 90 wore CooperBuilt Dominator 235/75r15 on the Rear~
>>
>>
>>                        ORR ~ DeanB
>>
>> On 10 Jun , 2014, at 6:47 PM, Vanagon wrote:
>>
>>> "You would be hard pressed though to find another vehicle with these
>> weight characteristics to have a 185 width tire that is then inflated to a
>> point of limited contact patch."
>>>
>>> When I told my son about the rough time my van had when pulling up a
>> fairly rough and steep dirt/rubble road a couple weeks ago - with trailer
>> filled with camping gear in tow, he, who four-wheels with friends and
>> drives a Jeep Cherokee with mighty burly tires, said, "yeah, those little
>> tires probably have a hard time climbing over even small rocks."
>>>
>>> Kind of like trying to ride over a garden hose on a skateboard.
>>>
>>> Sent from my 1963 aqua 702B Western Electric Princess phone.
>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2014, at 10:25 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Many rear wheel drive vehicles have more weight up front than at the
>> rear and the vanagon is not always front heavy. You would be hard pressed
>> though to find another vehicle with these weight characteristics to have a
>> 185 width tire that is then inflated to a point of limited contact patch.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 2:35 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: I rather drive the Vanagon
>>>>
>>>> look up the weight distribution for a 2WD vanagon ..
>>>> oddly, amazingly ..their is more weight on the front axle than on the
>> rear ( drive ) axle !!
>>>>
>>>> which why they are traction-challenged.
>>>>> On 6/8/2014 3:18 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>>>> While the Hakka's are very good tire quality wise and that tire has
>> some winter capability you simply will not get much traction on a 185/80
>> tire inflated to 50 psi or more. If you want to make any improvements you
>> need to begin where the rubber meets the road.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Don Hanson
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 11:36 PM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>> Subject: Re: I rather drive the Vanagon
>>>>>
>>>>> You haven't tried enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Well, nice discussion but it doesn't alter the way 2wd Vanagons
>> normally
>>>>> behave.   They just are not as good, traction-wise, as many other
>>>>> vehicles.. On a scale of 1 to 10 I would rate mine about a 3..maybe a
>> two.
>>>>>   I had a long bed 2wd ford pickup that was awful in snow...I'd give
>>>>> that a
>>>>> 3 maybe 4..... Oh, I've made lots of improvements trying to make mine
>> go better but it still gets stuck without much effort, if you are not
>> really careful about how you ask it to move....  If I park on any kind of
>> slick or soft surface that has any slope...I better park headed downhill,
>> or I am
>>>>> stuck.   If I stop in sand...stuck.   If I have the front wheels
>> turned in
>>>>> sand and try to move...stuck.   If it snows while I am away from my
>>>>> house....I am stuck at the bottom of my driveway...
>>>>>
>>>>>   This is with brand new Nokian Hakkapellita mud and snows on the rear,
>> the suspension reworked and the van corner balanced and many years of snow
>> and sand driving experience...They just plain don't work that well..You
>> *can* drive around this crummy traction, most of the time, but I think it
>> is one of the few things my Vanagon does badly....
>>>>>
>>>>>    Yes, a limited slip diff would be a huge improvement...Or better
>> yet, a full locker for when you need it...
>>>>>
>>>>>    I think it is partly due to the rear suspension not being
>> particularly supple or having very much travel...It doesn't take much to
>> get a wheel completely off the ground at the rear...there is little "droop"
>> in the Vanagon...Droop being the amount a suspension will hang down when
>> the vehicle is lifted....
>>>>>
>>>>>    When it begins to snow and sleet around here I have to load at least
>> a few hundred lbs onto the rear deck lid to keep driving my vanagon without
>> being constantly stuck...that's not very convenient nor safe and it is a
>> real pain when you need to access the engine..
>>>>>
>>
>