Thanks Jim, I'm going to try to fix mine just for fun.  If that doesn't work it's plan B.  I'll let you know.

Stuart

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jim Felder
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 5:05 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues

I have a spare idle stabilizer to loan out. Just give that part number so I know I am sending the right thing.

Jim

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:56 AM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:

>                 Stuart
>
>                 I recently encountered an H2OBoxr that did not want to 
> IdleDown ~ don't remember how high the Revs were ~
>
> Don't think as high as 3K ~ Maybe closer to 2K ~ & the culprit turned 
> out to be the IdleStabilizerControlModule/Relay ~ Is
>
> there any chance you get an "local loaner" IdleStabilizerControlModule 
> to try ~
>
>
>               ORR ~ DeanB
>
>
>
>
>
> On 19 Oct , 2014, at 10:12 PM, Stuart MacMillan wrote:
>
> > I found a local loaner ECU and it didn't change anything.  Now 
> > diving
> deeper.  It has a hot 1" spark, but I'll measure the coil tomorrow and 
> take a close look at the AFM and hall sensor.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 7:41 AM
> > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > It is possible that you have a bad ECU or Hall sensor. I recently 
> > had a
> van with these symptoms and it turned out to be the coil. Take the 
> coil out and test it with an ohmmeter. From the center post to the _ 
> terminal should be ~4,500 ohms. The bad coil I had appeared OK at 
> 3,500 ohms, (not open or
> shorted) but that was the problem. It had a week spark.  That can also 
> confuse the idle controller.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stuart MacMillan [mailto:stuartmacm@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 6:17 PM
> > To: 'Dennis Haynes'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > With the ISV connected. Unplug it and it won't idle at all, even 
> > after a
> few minutes of holding down the pedal.  Plug it in, and it's up to 
> 3500 rpm, 2000 with the T2 disconnected.  T2 voltage drops from 4.98 
> to 1 volt when I plug it in with the engine barely warm, measured with 
> my Fluke meter by sticking the probe into the back of the connector. 
> Bentley shows resistance dropping with increasing temp. There are two 
> wires coming to the voltage terminal, and one ground wire from the other.
> >
> > With ISV plugged in and pinched off it won't idle. Adjusted throttle
> stop per Bentley.  No matter what I've tried it will not idle, or 
> idles at
> 2000 to 3500 rpm depending on whether the T2 sensor is connected.
> >
> > This happened literally over night after driving the well-running 
> > van
> 270 miles home.  The next day all this appeared.
> >
> > I did find a very weak alternator, and the battery was run down to 
> > 25%
> the next day. It would crank but not start, but started with a jump.  
> Maybe that did in the ECU.
> >
> > Something is sending the wrong signals obviously, but this engine is
> pretty clean, unmodified, and has been professionally serviced its 
> whole life, which has been in the northwest.  No cut & spliced wires, 
> cut sheathing, corroded connectors, added equipment, accidents, etc., 
> so I don’t think it's a wiring problem.
> >
> > Just for fun I popped the ECU plug and it looks fine.  Situation is 
> > the
> same plugging it back in.  At proverbial wits end.  I have the TA 
> version ECU, are they know to be problematic?
> >
> > Van Cafe wants $225 for a rebuilt ECU.  I'm tempted to order one 
> > right
> now!
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 2:04 PM
> > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > Is that idle with the stabilizer valve connected? You need both fuel 
> > and
> air . Again,  start by getting it to run/idle with the valve 
> disconnected, maybe even pinch off or block the hoses. Check the 
> voltage at that plug terminal with the sensor connected and 
> disconnected. There must be a difference. If not you have a wiring 
> issue or a bad input on the ECU. If fast idle with idle valve blocked 
> you have a vacuum leak somewhere or the throttle is partly open.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On 
> > Behalf
> Of Stuart MacMillan
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 4:51 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > Checked the T2 sensor, and it's 1500 ohms @ 35 C, right what the 
> > Bentley
> says it should be. Sensor in AFM is also spot on.  That T2 connector 
> is clean as a whistle, contacts inside are not broken or corroded either.
> >
> > But remember, it idles at 2000 rpm with it unplugged!  Something is
> dumping fuel in, and it must be a bad ECU unless you can think of 
> something else.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 1:23 PM
> > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > The ECU thinks the engine is really cold. Try changing the 
> > connector. It
> is the same as for the injectors except for color. A good auto parts 
> store will have the connector and pigtail wires, maybe the Help or 
> Cal-Term board. GM uses the same connectors.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On 
> > Behalf
> Of Stuart MacMillan
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 4:20 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > I've got 4.9 volts, and 0.02 volts on the connectors.  Fuel pressure 
> > is
> 30 psi and no leaking at the regulator vacuum connection.
> >
> > All hooked up and the same situation--hard start, won't idle, 30 
> > seconds
> later revs up to 3500 rpm and stays there.
> >
> > I give up.  At least I have a good shop close by.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 1:05 PM
> > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > High idle and timing defaulted is normal when temps is disconnected
> after engine running. That is part of the procedure to set the timing.
> Reconnect the snsor to then set the idle speed.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stuart MacMillan [mailto:stuartmacm@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 4:03 PM
> > To: 'Dennis Haynes'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > Thanks Dennis, that might actually be cheaper than taking it to a shop!
> >
> > I'll go check that now, but it still idles at 2000 rpm with temp 2
> disconnected.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 12:51 PM
> > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > Where are you located again? Do you need me to fly there to fix it? 
> > Only
> kidding.
> > The hard start and idle problem is probably related. If it is 
> > flooding
> look at the Temp 2 sensor. The original sensors rarely go bad. What 
> does go bad is the connector and the wiring to it. And then there is 
> the ground connection for it.  This sensor is used for both the ECU to 
> control starting mixture, warm up mixture, when to go into O2 sensor 
> operation and some ignition timing trim. It is also used by the idle 
> stabilizer to modify idle speed for starting and warm up operation. 
> There are also inputs for the AC and power steering.
> >
> > The temps sensor gets a signal off of the ECU and sinks it to the
> chassis. As the sensor warms up the resistance goes down increasing 
> current flow which reduces the voltage at the ECU. Any high resistance 
> in this path leaves a high voltage making the ECU and idle control 
> unit think it is like
> 40 below. Yes it will run rich and if it does run idle high.
> >
> > Key on engine not running you can use a voltmeter to test the
> connections. On the ECU side of the sensor you need to see less than 5 
> volts connected, between the connector and chassis). On the ground 
> side needs to be real close to "0" If you have voltage on both sides 
> or much above "0" on the ground side you have a bad ground path. If 5 
> volts on one side then you have a bad connection to the sensor.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On 
> > Behalf
> Of Stuart MacMillan
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:13 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> > I would, but son is tapped out for now.  Need to get a year or two 
> > out
> of this one!
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Don Hanson [mailto:dhanson928@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 12:05 PM
> > To: Stuart MacMillan
> > Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> >
> >
> >
> > Give in, Stuart....You know you are wanting a different motor...Do 
> > it
> now.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Stuart MacMillan 
> > <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Okay,
> >
> >
> >
> > Today it was very hard to start, much cranking with foot to floor to
> minimized flooding.  Started, barely  ran but 30 seconds later runs up 
> to
> > 3000 rpm and stays there.  Warmed it up for a couple of minutes.
> >
> >
> >
> > Unplugged O2, Temp2, and idle control power plug.  Same hard to 
> > start
> condition, but it went to 2000 and stayed there.  Checked the timing 
> and it was a bit advanced but steady, so I adjusted that.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hooked everything back up and still hard starting, but went right up 
> > to
> 3500 rpm. Gave up.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is not a problem with the idle control circuit.  What's left?  AFM?
> > ECU? Other?
> >
> >
> >
> > About ready to have it towed to a shop where they can substitute 
> > parts
> they have lying around, but that would be painful in so many ways.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> >
>