Thanks for that guys� my gut told me this, and why I am unlikely to upsize wheels until/if we put more power into the bus.

 Eric
 Eric Wunrow Pictures
 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
 Lakewood, CO 80228
  
 303. 988. 8717
 VW@EricWunrow.com

On Nov 18, 2014, at 6:13 PM, Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> *"Lowering engine RPM at a given speed means increased torque and load.
> That means more stress, heat, and over time broken parts."*
> 
> YUP.. Dennis is right... very similar to going up hill in 4th...
> 
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Which 14" BFG? The floatation tire does not quite follow the same
>> guidelines as passenger tires. No rating for traction or tread wear etc.
>> While it has the ability to get you going in snow or on soft surfaces there
>> is little there for directional control or performance handling at speed.
>> That snow flake symbol is a sign of winter driving performance on the road.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of Ralph Meyermann
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:08 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>> 
>> I went 215/75/15 bfg all terrain for the snowflake that the 14" version
>> doesn't have. Dunno why the 14" doesn't ?
>> 
>> Velma 82 1.9L AAZ TD Westy
>> On Nov 18, 2014 12:13 AM, "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> The 27X8.5 tire is a "floatation" size designation. It is really about
>>> 26.5" diameter. If you put one side by side with a 215/70-14 the
>>> height is almost identical. Due to the stiff construction of the type
>>> of tire the load capacity is different than other tires due to
>>> heating. It needs to be at 50 psi to carry 1515 pounds as rated. That
>>> is also its maximum inflation pressure. If you have the alloy or 6'
>>> steel wheels you can go to a
>>> 225/70-14 which gets you to a 98 load index. Very had to find but
>>> there are tires up to 225/75-14 or even 205/80-14. The 205/80 would be
>>> a load range C or D truck tire.
>>> 
>>> If going for wheels I would suggest going right for 16" Much more
>>> choice of tires with adequate load capacities. 215/65-16 works well
>>> for those looking for a tad more height and is still reasonable for
>>> the gearing and brakes.
>>> As for gear changes and stuff keep in mind the transmission was based
>>> off a vehicle much lighter and lower powered. Any change including
>>> just larger tires has an adverse effect on transmission life. Lowering
>>> engine RPM at a given speed means increased torque and load. That
>>> means more stress, heat, and over time broken parts.
>>> 
>>> Dennis
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Dan N
>>> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:15 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>>> 
>>> unless there's another tire that I don't know... but with 27x8.5R14
>>> it's the largest diameter you can have with 14" rim...
>>> 
>>> next step up would be 215/75R15 - the 215/75R15 here is 27.7x8.5R15
>>> equivalent so you have .7" more for the price 15" rims (x4)
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Eric Wunrow <VW@ericwunrow.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thank You.
>>>> 
>>>> My fronts are the 195/75 size, though I do like the 27x8.5 profile
>>>> better� partly because I want as much ground clearance as possible
>>>> (we've done some pretty wicked roads already, not a problem after 30
>>>> years backroading with street cars!). Going to 16" wheels would
>>>> help, but unless I put in more horsepower, it seems prudent to not
>>>> change gear ratios and make it harder to pull the bigger wheels.
>>>> Maybe this
>>> isn't as bad as I fear...
>>>> 
>>>> Some have suggested the Too Tall springs, but not sure if that's a
>>>> good look with small wheels. Hence my asking all of you, and the
>>>> help is greatly appreciated!
>>>> 
>>>> Eric
>>>> Eric Wunrow Pictures
>>>> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
>>>> Lakewood, CO 80228
>>>> 
>>>> 303. 988. 8717
>>>> VW@EricWunrow.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:49 AM, mcneely4@cox.net wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Eric, not only is a 14" wheel with high profile tires an option,
>>>>> it was
>>>> original equipment on most Vanagons.  On my '91, I currently run
>> 195R14.
>>>> That is actually a little taller profile than 80 -- maybe it is 83.
>>>> Original equipment was 185R14, which would also be about 83 profile.
>>>> This gives maximum sidewall height, and so in driving back country
>>>> (quite feasible with the 2WD version of the Vanagon, unless one
>>>> encounters deep mud or sand, or very steep going) both the tires and
>>>> the rims are less susceptible to damage than either would be with
>>>> lower
>>> profile tires on.
>>>> Air is a pretty good cushion.  mcneely
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---- Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks, Jeff, that certainly makes sense. My comment about wheel
>>>> strength was not about tire sidewall height, just wheel height vs.
>>>> strength in absorbing the shocks off off-road travel.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am I wrong that a taller wheel can aborb more shock than a
>>>>>> shorter
>>>> wheel? If so, is a 14" wheel with higher-profile tires an option?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>> Eric Wunrow Pictures
>>>>>> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80228
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 303. 988. 8717
>>>>>> VW@EricWunrow.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually, it works the other way around.  After 20+ years of off
>>>>>>> road
>>>> racing (Baja 500 - 1000, etc.), I can assure you that the higher
>>>> profile of the tire helps protect the rim from damage.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just look at the rim/tire combinations that are run by serious
>>>>>>> off
>>>> roaders.  Off course, they also use bead locks...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of Eric Wunrow
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 1:09 PM
>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good advice. I have the alloy 14-inchers from VW and do wonder
>>>>>>> how
>>>> tough they are  that said, I've hammered them quite a lot and
>>>> they're still straight.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe that the larger the wheel is, the more one can punish
>>>>>>> them
>>>> without failure, and I suspect this is true of the alloys as well.
>>>> Not sure which way I'll go when upping to 16"...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>>> Eric Wunrow Pictures
>>>>>>> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
>>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80228
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 303. 988. 8717
>>>>>>> VW@EricWunrow.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Nov 16, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Another consideration when working on your off road
>>>> suitability....Alloy
>>>>>>>> wheels are more prone to damage than steel ones.   Alloys will
>>>> fracture or
>>>>>>>> fail when you hit the rim into a pothole or smoosh a huge
>>>>>>>> boulder with a low air tire....Steelies, if they do get damaged
>>>>>>>> off road, they can be bent back often times....or at least
>>>>>>>> enough to get the bead to seat for the tire, enabling you to
>>>>>>>> keep moving.  I have twice bent steel
>>>> rims in Baja
>>>>>>>> and broken an alloy aftermarket one.   One of the steelies I bent,
>>> we
>>>> were
>>>>>>>> almost 60 miles from pavement and there was nothing around.   We
>>>>>>>> straightened the rim with a rock and aired it up using our
>>>>>>>> bicycle pump, with gasoline and a match to seat the bead....In
>>>>>>>> Baja you may sit for days on end until another vehicle comes
>>>>>>>> along...often finding an appropriate rim may involve long
>>>>>>>> distances to help....I keep my
>>>> rims in steel now.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yes I do deflate the tires when I do off road - usually I take
>>>>>>>>> out 10psi and 15psi on sand - in any case I leave a minimum
>>>>>>>>> 20psi. As Dennis mentioned there's a risk of damage to tires
>>>>>>>>> specially on the side wall if the road has a lot sharp rocks
>>>>>>>>> such as the one from Ubehe Crater to the Race Track in Death
>>>>>>>>> Valley. I always carry a 12V
>>>> air pump, off road or not.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Dennis Haynes
>>>>>>>>> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Off roaders will air down the tires to improve traction and
>>>>>>>>>> reduce
>>>>>>>>> sinking
>>>>>>>>>> on soft dirt, mud, and sand. As the pressure is lowered the
>>>>>>>>>> contact patch increases. They will often air down low enough
>>>>>>>>>> that the sidewalls can
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>> provide a floatation effect, 12-16psi is common. The down
>>>>>>>>>> side of this is an increased chance of rolling the bead off
>>>>>>>>>> the rim and having a tire completely air out and hitting any
>>>>>>>>>> type of sharp object can damage a tire internally. Note this
>>>>>>>>>> approach is for low
>>>> speed operation.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You didn't say what tire you are using, size or type, If
>>>>>>>>>> using a regular passenger tire you reach full capacity at ~35
>> psi.
>>>>>>>>>> Above that you are
>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>> for handling or reduced rolling resistance.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]
>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Stan Shapiro
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 10:14 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Another question on suspension.   I have a 90 Westy, 16 in
>> wheels,
>>>>>>>>>> Michelin tires, and Bilstein shocks from GoWesty.    It is
>>> terrible
>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> washboard roads.     I notice the 4 wheelers let air out of
>> their
>>>> tires
>>>>>>>>>> before going off road.    Does anyone have any experience in
>>>> letting a
>>>>>>>>>> small amount of air out for a washboard road??    If so, how
>> much
>>>> do you
>>>>>>>>>> let out?   Do you carry a 12 volt compressor to refill?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>> Stan
>>>>>>>>>> Idaho
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]
>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Chris S.
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:58 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> See Burley Motorsports' custom upper control arms that
>>>>>>>>>> eliminate the finicky bushings. Also, for a good off road
>>>>>>>>>> ride you may consider progressive long travel springs. I have
>>>>>>>>>> Schwenk springs on my Syncro and they are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Wyslane z iPhone'a
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Dnia Nov 15, 2014 o godz. 14:47 Eric Wunrow
>>>>>>>>>> <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM>
>>>>>>>>>> napisal(a):
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I thought about posting this on the Samba but you all seem a
>>>>>>>>>>> bit more
>>>>>>>>>> civil  and helpful.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> We are traveling full-time in a 1984 Westy we bought just
>>>>>>>>>>> months before
>>>>>>>>>> leaving, and are about to end Month 16. Challenging, yes  and
>>>>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>> parts commendable and committable. But we are in for the long
>>> haul.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have had four alignments done in 12K miles. At first I
>>>>>>>>>>> thought the
>>>>>>>>>> mechanics weren't torquing the right upper control arm
>>>>>>>>>> enough, as it
>>>>>>>>> keeps
>>>>>>>>>> coming loose and knocking toe way out  last time it was over
>>>>>>>>>> AN INCH out, and now a few hundred miles later, it's out
>>>>>>>>>> again and baking our new BFG ATs. Ugh.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The easiest solution seems to be replacing the control arm
>>>>>>>>>>> bolts, as I
>>>>>>>>>> do not think Loctite will solve it in the proper way. But, if
>>>>>>>>>> the arms
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> to come off anyway, and possibly new bushings are needed as
>>>>>>>>>> well, what
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> my options for upgrading the suspension for constant dirt
>>>>>>>>>> travel? I saw a gray panel Synchro at Buses by the Bridge in
>>>>>>>>>> January with Fox shocks and
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> looked like a great solution. I am willing to trade highway
>>>>>>>>>> comfort for
>>>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>>>> road softness before parts start flying off at will.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> We hope to keep our Bus forever, and though we are short of
>>>>>>>>>>> funds I do
>>>>>>>>>> not necessarily want a quick fix. We have to rely on this
>>>>>>>>>> Thing (Ahem, sorry, Bus) for a long time and may take it
>>>>>>>>>> around the
>>> globe.
>>>>>>>>>> So
>>>>>>>>> anything I
>>>>>>>>>> can do for the long-term good is of prime interest, and
>>>>>>>>>> getting to remote places is partly why we live in it.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if you know of anyone in So. Cal. or near Yuma capable
>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>> work (where we're wintering), I'm all ears. I found a
>>>>>>>>>> cooperative tire store owner in Pahrump who owns a few
>>>>>>>>>> Vanagons, but have yet to ask if
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> an upgrade is within his realm.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in Advance,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>>>>>>> Eric Wunrow Pictures
>>>>>>>>>>> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
>>>>>>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80228
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 303. 988. 8717
>>>>>>>>>>> VW@EricWunrow.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> David McNeely
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>