I would start by getting rid of the 4 tires I drive on!

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jim Felder
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 10:34 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Trying to understand starter stuff adding a relay

If I got rid of every point of failure on my Vanagon, I would be looking at the spare tire sitting in the driveway, if that.

Jim

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 8:22 AM, Miguel Pacheco <mundopacheco@gmail.com>
wrote:

> A timely warning. A PO crudely wired in a Hard Start Relay on one of 
> my current Syncro projects. I backed it into a parking space at the 
> office (backing in required/company policy,) and left it in reverse, 
> sans emergency brake (not working.) The solenoid somehow became 
> energized and the van powered over the cement parking stop and across 
> the sidewalk, nestled itself against the office building, where it 
> continued cranking until the battery died. I snipped that rat's nest 
> out of there and now can't find it to inspect it for exact point of 
> failure. The relay was exposed, hanging next to the tranny, there was 
> about 6' of extra wire all coiled up with connections crudely twisted 
> on and held with gobs of electrical tape. Still, the point is that, 
> even if done right, it is an added point of failure. A potentially dangerous one.
> I have installed a new Starter and properly restored the wiring to 
> stock. A slow turning starter condition still exists and, as Dennis 
> advises, I know that it doesn't need an added relay, but, clearly, the PO thought it did.
>
> *Miguel*
>
> *The free soul is rare, but you know it when you see it- basically 
> because you feel good, very good, when you are near or with them. *
> *- Charles Bukowski, Tales of Ordinary*
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Dennis Haynes 
> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In know there are many that see this as an upgrade but in fact you 
> > are just adding another failure point. For all of our vans the 
> > original
> design
> > has lasted for 23 years + with maybe a few switch failures. Things fail.
> > The really does nothing to help a slow turning starter. All it does 
> > is help get the starter solenoid to pull the gear out and make the 
> > contact
> for
> > the starter motor. The other point of failure is these relays can 
> > fail closed. That makes for bad day. The relay used for this should 
> > be of a
> type
> > designed for an inductive load (arching) and be of a double break, 
> > spring loaded design. If installed in the engine compartment or 
> > otherwise
> outside
> > it should also be sealed or at least enclosed to keep most weather out.
> >
> > Slow turning starters are usually a sign of a bad battery, cables, 
> > or the starter itself. For an upgrade ask for 87 and later as they 
> > are slightly higher horsepower, (.8 instead .7). I know Bosch is our 
> > preferred brand
> but
> > I have had many over the years that were not right. The relationship 
> > of volts/amps/power gets very complex with these types of motors but 
> > if a
> new
> > starter is slow to turn testing needs to be done to establish why. I 
> > find that if I get a bad starter it is usually a batch problem so 
> > the next 3
> or
> > 4 will also be bad. I have recently had very good luck with starters 
> > and alternators from NAPA and AutoZone.
> >
> > Merry Christmas
> > Dennis
> >
>