I'm surprised, Dennis. I would think your Vanagon would win the Best Tire Award!

Jim

> On Dec 24, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I would start by getting rid of the 4 tires I drive on!
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jim Felder
> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 10:34 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Trying to understand starter stuff adding a relay
> 
> If I got rid of every point of failure on my Vanagon, I would be looking at the spare tire sitting in the driveway, if that.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 8:22 AM, Miguel Pacheco <mundopacheco@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> A timely warning. A PO crudely wired in a Hard Start Relay on one of 
>> my current Syncro projects. I backed it into a parking space at the 
>> office (backing in required/company policy,) and left it in reverse, 
>> sans emergency brake (not working.) The solenoid somehow became 
>> energized and the van powered over the cement parking stop and across 
>> the sidewalk, nestled itself against the office building, where it 
>> continued cranking until the battery died. I snipped that rat's nest 
>> out of there and now can't find it to inspect it for exact point of 
>> failure. The relay was exposed, hanging next to the tranny, there was 
>> about 6' of extra wire all coiled up with connections crudely twisted 
>> on and held with gobs of electrical tape. Still, the point is that, 
>> even if done right, it is an added point of failure. A potentially dangerous one.
>> I have installed a new Starter and properly restored the wiring to 
>> stock. A slow turning starter condition still exists and, as Dennis 
>> advises, I know that it doesn't need an added relay, but, clearly, the PO thought it did.
>> 
>> *Miguel*
>> 
>> *The free soul is rare, but you know it when you see it- basically 
>> because you feel good, very good, when you are near or with them. *
>> *- Charles Bukowski, Tales of Ordinary*
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Dennis Haynes 
>> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> In know there are many that see this as an upgrade but in fact you 
>>> are just adding another failure point. For all of our vans the 
>>> original
>> design
>>> has lasted for 23 years + with maybe a few switch failures. Things fail.
>>> The really does nothing to help a slow turning starter. All it does 
>>> is help get the starter solenoid to pull the gear out and make the 
>>> contact
>> for
>>> the starter motor. The other point of failure is these relays can 
>>> fail closed. That makes for bad day. The relay used for this should 
>>> be of a
>> type
>>> designed for an inductive load (arching) and be of a double break, 
>>> spring loaded design. If installed in the engine compartment or 
>>> otherwise
>> outside
>>> it should also be sealed or at least enclosed to keep most weather out.
>>> 
>>> Slow turning starters are usually a sign of a bad battery, cables, 
>>> or the starter itself. For an upgrade ask for 87 and later as they 
>>> are slightly higher horsepower, (.8 instead .7). I know Bosch is our 
>>> preferred brand
>> but
>>> I have had many over the years that were not right. The relationship 
>>> of volts/amps/power gets very complex with these types of motors but 
>>> if a
>> new
>>> starter is slow to turn testing needs to be done to establish why. I 
>>> find that if I get a bad starter it is usually a batch problem so 
>>> the next 3
>> or
>>> 4 will also be bad. I have recently had very good luck with starters 
>>> and alternators from NAPA and AutoZone.
>>> 
>>> Merry Christmas
>>> Dennis
>>