It wouldn't be the first time that happened on this list ; )

Merry Christmas!

Jim

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> The best of tires can and do fail! So if I can eliminate them I get rid of
> that failure point.
> The spare doesn't affect me until one of the other fail, right? So why get
> rid of that one?
>
> I think I miss-read your joke.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Felder [mailto:jim.felder@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 1:16 PM
> To: Dennis Haynes
> Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: Re: Trying to understand starter stuff adding a relay failure
> points
>
> I'm surprised, Dennis. I would think your Vanagon would win the Best Tire
> Award!
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> > On Dec 24, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I would start by getting rid of the 4 tires I drive on!
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > Behalf Of Jim Felder
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 10:34 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Trying to understand starter stuff adding a relay
> >
> > If I got rid of every point of failure on my Vanagon, I would be looking
> at the spare tire sitting in the driveway, if that.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 8:22 AM, Miguel Pacheco
> > <mundopacheco@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> A timely warning. A PO crudely wired in a Hard Start Relay on one of
> >> my current Syncro projects. I backed it into a parking space at the
> >> office (backing in required/company policy,) and left it in reverse,
> >> sans emergency brake (not working.) The solenoid somehow became
> >> energized and the van powered over the cement parking stop and across
> >> the sidewalk, nestled itself against the office building, where it
> >> continued cranking until the battery died. I snipped that rat's nest
> >> out of there and now can't find it to inspect it for exact point of
> >> failure. The relay was exposed, hanging next to the tranny, there was
> >> about 6' of extra wire all coiled up with connections crudely twisted
> >> on and held with gobs of electrical tape. Still, the point is that,
> >> even if done right, it is an added point of failure. A potentially
> dangerous one.
> >> I have installed a new Starter and properly restored the wiring to
> >> stock. A slow turning starter condition still exists and, as Dennis
> >> advises, I know that it doesn't need an added relay, but, clearly, the
> PO
> thought it did.
> >>
> >> *Miguel*
> >>
> >> *The free soul is rare, but you know it when you see it- basically
> >> because you feel good, very good, when you are near or with them. *
> >> *- Charles Bukowski, Tales of Ordinary*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Dennis Haynes
> >> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In know there are many that see this as an upgrade but in fact you
> >>> are just adding another failure point. For all of our vans the
> >>> original
> >> design
> >>> has lasted for 23 years + with maybe a few switch failures. Things
> fail.
> >>> The really does nothing to help a slow turning starter. All it does
> >>> is help get the starter solenoid to pull the gear out and make the
> >>> contact
> >> for
> >>> the starter motor. The other point of failure is these relays can
> >>> fail closed. That makes for bad day. The relay used for this should
> >>> be of a
> >> type
> >>> designed for an inductive load (arching) and be of a double break,
> >>> spring loaded design. If installed in the engine compartment or
> >>> otherwise
> >> outside
> >>> it should also be sealed or at least enclosed to keep most weather out.
> >>>
> >>> Slow turning starters are usually a sign of a bad battery, cables,
> >>> or the starter itself. For an upgrade ask for 87 and later as they
> >>> are slightly higher horsepower, (.8 instead .7). I know Bosch is our
> >>> preferred brand
> >> but
> >>> I have had many over the years that were not right. The relationship
> >>> of volts/amps/power gets very complex with these types of motors but
> >>> if a
> >> new
> >>> starter is slow to turn testing needs to be done to establish why. I
> >>> find that if I get a bad starter it is usually a batch problem so
> >>> the next 3
> >> or
> >>> 4 will also be bad. I have recently had very good luck with starters
> >>> and alternators from NAPA and AutoZone.
> >>>
> >>> Merry Christmas
> >>> Dennis
> >>
>