Where is the back up switch on an automatic transmission ? 

                          Stacy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> I have this Jay Brown Hard Start Relay setup. I can't tell you how well
> done it the kit is and how well it works. Solved my starter problems. If
> you have a westy, be sure to do the final little step in the instructions
> that involves the under-seat relay. It's all easy-peasy.
> 
> Also, somewhere I copied down a bit of advice I saw on this list about
> using the Jay Brown relay setup as a remote starter. Another reason to get
> one.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Here is a nice relay setup:
>> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1119534 (Won't work
>> with an automatic with factory cruise control for some reason though.)
>> 
>> Stuart
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>> David Beierl
>> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 9:46 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Trying to understand starter stuff
>> 
>> At 11:03 PM 12/22/2014, Marc Perdue wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Excellent!  I now have three verified cases of a starter control lead
>> coming
>> off without causing a hard start failure:  your Van, my '89 2.1l, and my
>> '71
>> Fiat 128.  I solved that one after running out of gas in an uphill  line to
>> buy gas somwehere in upstate New York, when it became clear that the motor
>> would crank if it were torqued slightly sideways.
>> 
>> Starters have some challenging necessities.  They have to have big cables
>> direct to the battery; a heavy switch that can switch them on and off under
>> load without burning up quickly; a means of engaging the pinion into the
>> flywheel ring gear; and a positive means of disengaging it when the motor
>> starts, so the starter doesn't burst from overspeed.
>> 
>> Back when the world was new the electrical switching was done by a
>> heavy-duty relay that would today be called a contactor but was commonly
>> known as a solenoid.  It was mounted somewhere between battery and starter,
>> and a light wire from the starter button or key switch used to activate it.
>> For testing you could use a screwdriver to jumper between the big battery
>> cable connection and the control terminal.  Starter "solenoids" were a
>> commonly available FLAPS part and no doubt still are; as they regularly
>> failed in use.  Last one I bought cost three or four dollars.  Excellent
>> for
>> switching a couple hundred amps DC but not rated for continuous duty.
>> They're meant for starting cars, once per trip segment, plenty of time to
>> cool in between.
>> 
>> Engaging and disengaging the pinion was accomplished by a clever invention
>> called a Bendix drive.  The pinion was mounted on the starter shaft and
>> engaged a pair of helical slots in the shaft.  It was kept wound down to
>> the
>> bottoms of the slots by a light spring that pressed it away from the end of
>> the shaft.  When you hit the button, the shaft would spin violently and
>> hurl
>> the pinion into engagement during the first few revolutions.  And when the
>> motor started, the ring gear would spin the pinion back down the track out
>> of engagement.  It worked a treat, so long as you kept it clean and not
>> gucked up with oik or grease.  The Bendix Corporation waxed fat and happy.
>> 
>> Came the day that someone thought it would be better to combine actions.
>> If
>> the contactor were mounted on the starter it would simplify wiring, and it
>> could be used as a real solenoid, to physically throw the pinion into
>> engagement as well.  Or rather a solenoid could be thus used, and with some
>> contacts added could perform the contactor function as well.  An
>> overrunning
>> clutch would handle decoupling the starter from the engine, leaving the
>> pinion in engagement but not forcing the starter to keep up with it.  Full
>> disengagement would happen when the key was released.  Over a decade or two
>> this method largely took over for starting cars, and that's how Bosch did
>> it
>> on our starters.
>> 
>> The big cable goes direct from battery to starter, where it meets the
>> thinner wire from the alternator that supplies charge.  That connection is
>> subject to corrosion.  The ground connection through the starter, bell
>> housing, transmission ground strap may be defective.  The solenoid itself
>> wears and gets crudded up; you have to take the starter apart to clean it
>> up.  Non-A/T versions of this starter have no bearing at the pinion end;
>> the
>> shaft inserts into a sleeve bearing that's in turn inserted into the bell
>> housing of the engine.  That wears and needs renewal.  And the solenoid
>> gets
>> its operating power not from that fat cable but from battery to panel to
>> ignition switch and back to the starter.  It only needs two or three amps,
>> but it's a long trip.  It's easy to see if a relay could help it -- just
>> jumper the alternator B+ post to the starter control terminal.  You can
>> reach it by reaching your hand over the top of the bell housing, quite a
>> way
>> forward and then to the right.  There's probably a spare terminal to latch
>> on to.  If it cranks snappily that way and listlessly by the key, add a
>> relay.  If it makes no difference, neither will the relay.
>> 
>> Yours,
>> David
>>