Not "if they stay honest."  If they become honest.  Seems unlikely, actually.  People, and organizations made up of them, don't often change much.  But let's hope.  mcneely

---- Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Look, they make great diesel cars (gas too). If they can survive the
> financial carnage, people will eventually come to respect their excellent
> diesel offerings for the performance and mileage they actually deliver.
> They didn't have to scam the public, those are great diesel cars. The dug
> the hole when the lied to the public and to regulators. If they survive the
> onslaught of litigation, which remains to be seen, they will do fine if
> they stay honest.
>
> Jim
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:22 PM Angus Gordon <birdworks@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually James makes a very valid point, in that both fuel efficiency and
> > tailpipe emissions must be considered. If VW cuts tailpipe emissions in
> > terms of PPM at the expense of fuel economy, what is the net effect?
> > Consideration should be given to measuring emissions output per mile, along
> > with minimal fuel use. That would be something useful.
> >
> > Angus
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:10 PM, SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott ) <
> > scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > You could work for VW since you are so skilled at Justifying illegality
> > !
> > > "We're just giving them what they want ! '    ..and hey ...if we have
> > > to  trick the regulators a little to do that ...that's ok.
> > >
> > > That would be an interesting poll :
> > > what portion of VW diesel owners bought their car largely  because they
> > > are suppossidly 'clean' and not environmentally so harmful ?
> > >
> > > or ...of the 3 biggies .....fuel economy, power/driveability and
> > > environmental correctness..
> > > what wight would they give to each category ?
> > >
> > > I suspect that joe average consumer is concerned first with their own
> > > personal benefit, and less so about the larger environmental picture.
> > >  < lol...and that is what is taught subtly and pervasively throughout
> > > Consumerism ..it's all about what you can get for yourself. >
> > >
> > > In Portland OR, just on the tv news the other night ..
> > > a diesel car owner found a note on his windshield in the morning
> > > ...blasting him for driving a polluting car.
> > > This is 'So Portland' was the guy's reaction.
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >> On 10/1/2015 9:29 AM, James wrote:
> > >> The opposite argument to this is that they did it for the faithful VW
> > loving diesel owner.
> > >> Let me explain this alternate argument.
> > >>
> > >> If you have a VW diesel, you probably value its fuel economy and power
> > most - not many people outside of the LA and Frankfurt 'smog basins' or the
> > EPA care that much about NOx.  By running with this 'trick' software, VW
> > gave owners the best of both worlds - a car that will pass emissions tests
> > as required by governments, AND a car that gets fabulous fuel economy and
> > great power in real-world driving.
> > >>
> > >> I know very few VW diesel owners who boast about their car's low
> > pollution numbers.  I know a lot of VW diesel owners who boast about their
> > car's power and exceptional fuel economy - about how they get even better
> > fuel mileage than the EPA/Transport Canada estimates.
> > >>
> > >> In that sense, VW was just giving its faithful diesel owners EXACTLY
> > what they wanted.
> > >>
> > >> Pity that what VW diesel drivers wanted was technically impossible, and
> > the VW solution to give it to them was thus illegal.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >> Ottawa, ON
> > >>
> > >>> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 13:31:43 -1000
> > >>> From: scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM
> > >>> Subject: Re: NVC Re: VW, honour, and culture
> > >>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > >>>
> > >>> it's a big deal because....
> > >>>
> > >>> 3. IT WAS INTENTIONAL DECEPTION.
> > >>>    they tricked everyone ..apparently intentionally ...the faithful
> > >>> VW-loving owner...
> > >>>
> > >>
> >

--
David McNeely