WOW, SDF!  Thank you for the education!  I haven't touched the inside of a
car since the 80's, and was thinking of taking a look at my Vanagon engine
just to see if anything looks familiar.  Very encouraging and helpful. I
recently had a  "tune-up" done, but I should have at least LOOKED to see if
the parts were replaced...  In the 80's I used to do that myself...
Patti

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 1:09 AM, SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott ) <
scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:

> I was just thinkinga about this ...
> all the various things that have to be right for a 2.1 waterboxer to work
> exactly perfectly, and they absolutely can start perfectly and instantly,
> go just fine from cold, be smooth, go well etc etc.
> It just takes a while to get them there sometimes.
>
> ( just went through getting two 2.1's running after full 'new' assembly
> and installation .
> One of them included installing ALL the 2.1 stuff , like ecu harness and
> 'all that' as it had a weird non-waterboxer engine conversion previously,
> plus one more that started, died, started a time or two, then was
> dead..had to get that running. )
> so here is stuff to check and adjust for a 2.1 waterboxer engine .
>
> 1. Throttle Switch ..it MUST be making contact at idle.  They are seldom
> checked or adjusted. They get off over time.  Eventually correct adjustment
> can't be reach and the little arm on the micro switch needs a little
> tweak-bend.
> The shaft bushings get really worn ...making a smooth return to zero
> throttle iffy.
>
> 2. intake leaks ..there can not be ANY intake leaks !  I've found LOTS of
> those ..especially intake runner boots , plenum, throttle body seal, etc.
> two easy tests...listen EVERYWHERE with a listening tube held to yer ear.
> Any hissing....it's easy to tell when you've found one.
> Spray around with carb cleaner..any stumble or change in idle, there's a
> leak there.
> I have not done the same test with propane, but that is another way.
> The 'modern official' way to find intake leaks ..which can be very
> difficult to track down, is with a Smoke Machine , just for that purpose.
>
> 3. need 4 cylinders of decent compression. I have seen about ..oh ...a
> thousand, no joke, opposed 4 cylinder VW van or bus engines with lowish
> compression on # 3.  It's like 150, 160, # 3 is 90, then 150 for # 3.
> An engine like that can still start and run well tho.  But it's ALWAYS
> good to check.
>
> 4. Ignition timing ..needs to be pretty right. People are often tempted to
> advance it a bit too much ..don't.  A few degrees...fine, but not 10 for
> sure.
> Check that the timing advances, which is controlled by the ECU.   I have
> never seen one that did not advance the timing , fwiw.
>
> 5. Distributor Hall Sender..this is more for 'no start' and cutting out at
> speed. The Hall Senders fail or get intermittent eventually. Replacement is
> the correct repair  - the Hall Sender.
> The plastic plug on the side, those get brittle and break ..then the
> little harness pulls on the wires inside the distributor, not good.
>
> 5.5 Coil.  I barely believe in faulty coils, but it does happen.
> Eventually they get old and weak.  I don't think I've seen an outright dead
> one.  I have a few known good ones so for my own cars I just pop one of
> those on.  Not sure that I've ever bought a new one in my life.  I have
> replaced a few though ...one ever decade maybe.
>
> 5.5 Ground wire for distributor harness....it's right next to the
> distributor. That needs to be clean and tight.
> AS DO ALL GROUNDS ! ...ground cable on left cylinder head, ground cable at
> nose of trans to frame,
> ground wire next to ecu under the back seat.
>
> 6. generally electrical and electronic connections. If I have any plug off
> for any reason ....I spray it with electrical contact cleaner without
> exception.
>
> 7. Temp Sensor II. The blue one. I seldom find a bad one ...check
> resistance cold and at warmed up.
> Contact there is not usually an issue, but always consider soundness of
> all electrical/electronic connection.
>
> 8 Air Flow Meter. I have only seen AFM's get 'dodgey' ....surgey
> ..uneven.  I've seen a dead spot Right At 3,100 rpm a few times. I have
> never seen one prevent starting or running well from cold .
> But they do wear out and get funky.  It's a fundamental weakness..you have
> an interface of something mechanical ( sweeper arm in the AFB ) and a
> electrical circuit. In All Cases of something mechanical interfacing with
> something mechanical ..it's a fundamental weakness.
> < of note..the next air sensing device up the food chain, the Air Mass
> Meter  has No mechanical things touching anything ...brilliant.  Air
> flowing over tiny wires changes their resistance and the computer reads
> that. It even can compensate for humidity and barometric pressure. A
> regular Air Flow Meter is quite crude in comparison. >
> I have never seen an incorrectly reading Air Temp Sensor in an AFM..
> though it's in the book.
>
> 9. ECU ...I've only seen them not work .........like they are either  ok,
> or dead. It's really smart to have a known good spare. Try it out as soon
> as you get it, mark them so you can tell which is which .  I always have a
> known good spare on board.
>
> 10.  fuel pump, fuel pressure, fuel tank, fuel pressure regulator. In all
> cases of not running right..
> the fuel filter should be removed, and emptied out backwards on a clean
> dish to see what's in it..
> I find dirt, water, and and tiny metal particles.  And check how
> restricted the filter is.  It's practical to just put on a new fairly
> original type ( not a cheapo ) just to not have to do this messy toxic job
> again.
>  I do find water in the fuel once in a great while.  That can be a weird
> one ...like engine works right sometimes, not others.
> Fuel pressure ....usually not an issue. I found maybe two bad fuel
> pressure regulators in a dozen years.
> Fuel pumps ...those last 'forever' ..but not really really totally
> indefenitly.
> fuel tanks get old and clog up.
> Fuel pressure has to be about right.
>
> 11. Vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. Those fall off or crack.
> Easy to check. Check **ALL vacuum lines**carefully.
>
> 12. Air Intake Boot .those last super well. On a rare occasion one will
> crack and leak air and result in very poor and uneven running.. Sometimes
> they just get loose at one end from the clamp not being tightened
> carefully.
>
> 13. Spark plug wires. Last really really well.  On a rare occasion they
> can be faulty, and it's hard to tell.
> if old, say 5 to 10 or more years, they are suspect.
> clever tests ...observe the engine run in total darkness...if you see tiny
> sparks running around ...plug wires are leaking.
> at a smooth idle..spray wires down with fine mist of water..any stumbling
> or change...yup, plug wires.
>
> 14. Spark plugs. Eventually their gaps grow large and the electrodes get
> rounded edges. They are not a weak spot in Waterboxer engines. I have
> dozens of sets left over from engine conversions. I haven't bought a new
> set of spark plugs in years. Inspect them yes, gap them sure. If worn,
> replace them, not a weak area at all if using decent brand plugs.
>
> 15. tune up parts...a real Bosch distributor cap and rotor in my
> experience last 'forever'.  If you see a cheapo some other brand, not good.
> On rare occasion dist. caps develop cracks. Look for signs or arcing or
> cracks.
> Don't use cheap parts !
>
> 16. Idle control valve and control unit for it.  A dead or faulty Control
> Unit is pretty common. I had one that would idle at 2,000+ rpm cold. Tried
> another one from one of my other 2.1 systems ...yep ...faulty Control Unit.
> The good one shot to maybe 1,500 rpm and immediately settled into a nice
> normal idle rpm.
> I just read today on here....The Valve ..hard to find, coils burn out in
> them , something like that.
> You want that system working.
>
> 17. Oxygen sensor .  The Oxygen Sensor does not come into play until
> engine is warmed up some.
> if in doubt, disconnect it, then see how things run.
>  Lots of vanagons are running around with dead 02 sensors. They run all
> right, run a little rich that way, burn more fuel.
> Test the voltage output with engine warmed up.  02 sensors can be working,
> lazy, or dead.
> You want nice swinging voltage , like .2 to .8 volts , warmed up  engine
> running, circuit connected.  If you see s steady say .5 or .6 volts..it's
> dead. If it doesn't move a lot, it's tired and lazy.,
>
> 18. Exhaust leaks. There must not be any exhaust leaks.  Leaks at an
> exhaust port will contribute to burning that exhaust valve.  Exhaust leaks
> near the 02 sensor can mess with the sensor's readings.
>
> < had one guy come from 300 miles away in a 91 Carat ...
> very late model van ...l
> Lol..he tells me he's married and has 4 children and this is his only
> car...I say ..you CAN NOT have that life situation and a Vanagon for your
> only car !
> Anyway ..he says he paid $ 600 for a new distributor with a german
> mechanic TWICE ..and now, Again, it's cutting out.
> I look at it. I find the throttle switch not making contact, and exhaust
> leaks right near the Oxygen sensor. I fix and adjust those...check a few
> other things ...timing probably. We drive it, it runs fine.
> He's skeptical ...says "I'm going to drive this ALL OVER town tomorrow,
> and if acts up I'm coming back."
> He didn't come back.
> On a waterboxer engine ..ALL the Details have to be Pretty Darn Right.
> About 25 things, at least.  .
>
> 19. Cat ( Cat and Muffler ) Cats fail, clog up, and can clog and restrict
> running, sometimes  intermediately. Same for muffler, tho that is very
> rare. But failed cats....fairly common.  Usual simptom is very low power,
> won't rev out like it should .
>
> 20. Thermostat.  Doesn't affect starting or cold operation .  But
> ..thermostat MUST  be working and keeping engine up to proper temp !!  It
> Must run at 180ish F.    Must.    Use good German ones, Whaler or Behr.
> Countless Vanagons are running too cool. I like the hotter one for winter,
> the cooler one for summer.
>
> 21. Injectors .  I have about 12 running cars, 7 of them vanagons.
> Naturally I don't get to drive many of them that much. I would Not Dream of
> not adding a good fuel additive now and then.  Seafoam ...that's The One in
> my opinion.  Also, Sta-bill for any gasoline engine that sits.
> The fuel should be treated once in a while, couple times a year.
> Mostly the injectors are not a weak area.  In 15 years of full time
> vanagon work I found one dribbling at idle,
> causing a failed smog test.
> They're very easy to test for leakage and spray pattern. Not a weak area,
> just something that should be considered .
>
> 22. Vanagon Syndrome.  Google it.  I've never seen an actual case, but if
> I have the Adapter Harness, I run it .
>
> 23. I'm sure there's more, that I'll think of later or others will think
> of.
>
> oh...here's what it is ! !   :
> It is literally................."A blockage or leakage of fluids or
> electrons."
>
> < many people don't realize that 'fluids' does not mean just
> liquids...also means air, vacuum , exhaust etc.
> So somewhere ..or in multiple places ..some electrons are not going where
> they should ..
> some device that has some fluid involved....vacuum, air, exhaust etc. is
> not doing or seeing the right thing.>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________________________
> Re general understanding of the system ...( especially for a no start
> situation ) .
>
> Pretty simple actually.
>
> it's like the ECU is the brain, and the distributor is the Heart.
> The human on the ignition switch starts a sequence..
> 'On'  wakes up the ECU via the Main Relay and I believe wakes up the
> distributor,
> and for several seconds, the ecu supplies ground the Fuel Pump Relay to
> energize it, so there is some fuel pre--pressure.
>
> ( of note, it is Never really right to just hop in and turn the key to
> 'start' !
>  What is right, is ..turn it to on, listen for the fuel pump to run and
> then shut off, and observe warning lights working. It's in the Owner's
> Manual  about the warning lights.
> Many an oil pressure warning light and system are not working..
> people never notice....lots of engines ruined that way.
> THEN...turn it to start.
>
> the starter causes the engine and  distributor to turn and make ignition
> with the coil .
> The ecu sees the distributor turning ..
> and energizes the injectors , all 4 at once.  Cheaply, the injectors are
> not sequentially fired or even timed to intake stroke . So if you see
> injector pulse at one injector, they are all probably being pulsed.
>
> here's a Real Easy and Quick way to diagnose a no-start ..( engine cranks
> but won't fire )
>
> Grab your known-good spare distributor,
> unplug the wires on the side of the engine's distributor and plug that
> into the known--good distributor in your hand.
> Rig up the high voltage coil wire from the coil where it can spark to
> ground.
> Put a NOID light ( google it ) on one injector connector.
> < the above takes about one or two minutes to do, or only a few  >
> Turn on the key,
> go back to the engine,
> turn the distributor in your hands with your fingers.
>
> what you should see...every quarter turn ..
> 3 things happen ..a zap of the coil wire,
> a flash of the NOID light,
> and the fuel pump runs a few seconds.
> if it does those three things..
> and there's fuel to the injectors and ignition timing is about right, and
> there's pressurized fuel to the injectors, it sure should run.
>
> I just did that in about 5 minutes on one of my vans..an 85 ..it was a
> worn out/dead original distributor. Had it running in about 10 or 15
> minutes total.
>
> lots of other things could be not quite right of course..say temp Sensor
> II ...but with those 3 happening plus fuel pressure. ..it should at least
> fire .
> And ignition timing has to be roughly where it belongs.  If it cranks with
> harsh resistance, the timing is probably much too advance. Just turn the
> distributor clockwise some.
>
> OK< way long enuf !
> It's NOT replacing parts !
> in fact, it's often not 'a part' .
> It's testing, checking, inspecting, cleaning, and adjusting. And once in a
> while you'll find a faulty or dead or just too tired part,
> but mostly, the parts are very well made ..at least originally.
> Things wear and change gradually.
> Beware they shop that says 'we have to tune it up first before we can
> diagnose fuel injection.
> That's bull. Sure the tune parts must be inspected, and tired ones
> replaced..
> but 'tune up' ...disgusting term, as the cars are pretty self-tuning ..
> Any modern competent shop won't even use that term 'tune up.'
>
> I have seen countless cases of shops that tossed in an air filter element,
> some cheap plug wires and  plugs  that didn't make any difference at all,
> and just took the person's money.
> Gash ...they might have to ACTUALLY inspect and test, and THINK to fix it
> !
>
> low battery gotta go !
> Scott
>
> On 3/9/2016 5:18 PM, PB wrote:
>
> I've had my 90 Westy automatic since 2007.  Up until this past summer, the
> van would start up and idle beautifully, and I could drive it right away.
> Now, roughly since this past fall, all of a sudden I have to sit and give
> it gas for 5 or 10 minutes before I can go anywhere.  After it's "warmed
> up" it drives perfectly and idles perfectly when stopped.
>
> I've had regular routine maintenance done by mechanics, but this just seems
> to have started out of nowhere.  What needs to be done?
>
> Patti
> 90 Westy Automatic
> 117,000 miles
> Los Angeles
>
>
>
>
>

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