I know.  Too many people that only think of themselves, not others or the
area.  :-(

GregM

-----Original Message-----
From: Alistair Bel [mailto:albell@shaw.ca]
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 10:06 PM
To: KI4TLF
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Vancouver Island

I wish that rule was followed more. Out of sight out of mind is more the
rule sometimes.

Alistair

> On May 7, 2016, at 5:06 PM, KI4TLF <ki4tlf@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> You pack it in, pack it out.  Doesn't take any more space than it did and
it should be lighter to carry.
>
> GregM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> Behalf Of Roger Whittaker
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 6:51 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Vancouver Island
>
> Dear Alistair
>
> My comment is and was directed at General Comments - you are intensely
> more knowledgeable than nearly any one I have met outside of active
> loggers - And yes the dumping of garbage in the woods is a serious
> problem - Muggles engaged in this activity should be punished -
> Logging shows doing a garbage dump in the woods also a problem
> -luckily Truck Loggers Association - of which I am a member - is
> trying to stop logging professionals from treating the woods like a
> personal waste oil drop - Hydraulic oil was likely the result of a
> blow out and yes that too should be dug up and carried away - I mean
> it is often an excavator - bad dog no treat to anyone tossing so much
> as a candy wrapper to the ground in the woods - As far as callus
> logging practices - well some of that is in the eye of the beholder -
> if a person is 100% no tree should ever be cut then all logging will
> look callus - The encouragement I see in the industry to be a
> responsible harvester of this renewable resource is heartening - with
> a long way to go - Again my apology if my terse tongue in cheek
> salutation read as with  derision The intention was 100% inclusive
> humour
>
> Regards
>
>> On Saturday, 7 May 2016, Alistair Bel <albell@shaw.ca
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','albell@shaw.ca');>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey roger,
>>
>> I'm not disputing what you said, it's just I haven't come across it.
>>
>> But I do come across, frequently, is illegal garbage dumping, callous
>> logging practices, logging equipment maintenance garbage  ( even
>> though a lot of the spilled oil from logging equipment is
>> biodegradable hydraulic oil).
>>
>> And illegal hunting.
>>
>> I see more damage done by yahoo types than anything else.
>>
>> And yes, forest ownership, leases,tree farm licenses, is different on
>> the island from the rest of the province.
>>
>> Alistair
>>
>> On May 7, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Dear VI Master - to whom has all knowledge of the Unknown (log roads
>> and other woodland gunk holes especially ) and to all of us who
>> lovingly learn from him -
>>
>>
>> Re Eco warriors and the stuff done -
>> After being a safety manager for a logging roads builder - for more
>> than 7 years I can tell you from experiance that very little of what
>> is done in the woods to thwart loggers is reported - most is
>> circulated to safety departments of various stake holders -
>> --- lest we forget many of these logging roads are owned and
>> maintained privately - some on public land have private management
>> and private use rules - Most of these logging roads are not under any
>> sort of provincial "care "
>> outside of the Tree Farm Lic the user is operating on the land with -
>> and that licence may be 100 years old - Further to that the public
>> use of the road is often at the pleasure  of the licence owner -
>>
>> Regards
>>> On Saturday, 7 May 2016, Alistair Bel <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, roger makes some good points
>>>
>>> My experiences:
>>>
>>> Gates - yes there are gates and there are trenches and bermed
>>> inactivated roads, and removed bridges. The gates locked usually in
>>> areas of active logging, or if there is a big fire hazard.
>>>
>>> Road roughness - you should have good tires already :-)
>>>
>>> Truck traffic - it can be a little disconcerting to come across one
>>> of the big loaded trucks barrelling towards you, especially when
>>> roads are dry and dusty. I go slower when I suspect active logging.
Never used radio.
>>>
>>> Eco warriors - new one on me. Never encountered anything of the kind.
>>>
>>>
>>> And I should mention how I now navigate the roads. I have lots of
>>> paper maps, and the back roads books. I seldom use them now. The
>>> backroad series is ok, but I've found a few errors in them and I
>>> don't trust them completely. They don't have up to date road
>>> inactivation data and I have found mis labelled spurs.
>>> Pretty well all of the area I outlined is beyond cell phone range,
>>> be aware of that.
>>> What I do now, and you can do this with lap top ( but now I use my
>>> iPads) is when you are in wifi or cell coverage, survey the region
>>> you want in google maps or earth, or Apple maps. Both are good, but
>>> the satellite data differs, I have found more up to date satellite
>>> images in Apple maps for my areas of interest, but annoyingly those
images have thin cloud cover.
>>>
>>> But either will work. Survey the area to the detail you want. The
>>> data is in cache on device. Then when out in the bush it becomes
>>> trivial to navigate the networks of roads.
>>>
>>> My iPad mini is connected to garmin glo Bluetooth gps device. This
>>> gets a quick and very accurate fix, even in canyons and tree cover.
>>>
>>> My iPad Air 2 has built in gps and works almost as well.
>>>
>>> Also , you can find pdf maps with geospatial data embedded. With the
>>> right app you can have your position displayed on a topo map.
>>>
>>> (I really should do a blog post detailing all this, it truly is a
>>> game changer for getting around on e logging roads up here).
>>>
>>> I continue to be amazed when I am at one of my favourite camping
>>> sites and I can see the site on the satellite image, with my blue
>>> dot location, and then look up from the screen and see that I am
>>> pretty well spot on. I mean really very close, within a couple of
meters.
>>>
>>> Alistair
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 7, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear VI Camper
>>>
>>> With Alister telling you all about the wonderful logging road system
>>> there are three things you should take into account before venturing
>>> on to said logging roads 1. Tires - the Michelin pkg offered by Go
>>> Westy says right on the tires - NO ROCKs And many (er.... Some)
>>> logging roads are blasted rock with all the sharp edges and all -
>>>
>>> 2. Some logging roads have gates - the gate may or may not be open
>>> to where you want to end up - also it may be open upon your arrival
>>> and closed when you try to get out - and no there is usually not a
>>> handy list of numbers to call attached to the lock -
>>>
>>> 3. Many logging roads are active and the trucks moving in either
>>> direction are calling miles up or down via a vhf radio - you may
>>> want to think about getting one - does everyone have one - no - do
>>> the truck drivers wish everyone had one - YES - a logging truck
>>> loaded or unloaded actually meeting an unannounced vehicle is probly
>>> about as common for logging truck as it is for urban drivers meeting
>>> wayward bicycle - Not Awlays reported - happens lots - please be
>>> safe -
>>>
>>> And oh yes one more thing
>>>
>>> 4. Eco warriors leave many nasty things in the woods to hinder the
>>> progress of legitimate users of the bush - razor blades on lock s
>>> was one particularly hidious event recently catalogued - it is my
>>> hope you do not become collateral damage to some of these misguided
>>> protests
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, 7 May 2016, Alistair Bel <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Forgot to add that I have some pics of the areas described below,
>>>> on my blog.
>>>> For example, pics taken with David B. On a trip to bamfield and
>>>> port Alberni a few years ago, and a cold April.
>>>>
>>>> https://shufti.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/another-logging-road-trip/
>>>>
>>>> Alistair
>>>>
>>>>> On May 7, 2016, at 8:12 AM, Alistair Bel <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, a couple of options for the southern part of the island. I'm
>>>> leaving out the obvious tourist attractions.
>>>>>
>>>>> From Victoria head west to port renfrew. On the way there are a
>>>>> few
>>>> provincial campsites that are worth a look. China beach, Mystic
>>>> beach, sombrio beach. There is also a fairly rugged hiking trail (
>>>> similar to the famous west coast trial) that runs along that section of
the coast.
>>>>> Any one of those parks is worth an overnight stay.
>>>>> Jordan river is popular surfing spot with a small campsite.
>>>>> At port can head out westwards and have a look at botanical beach.
>>>> Very much worth it if you are into intertidal life.
>>>>>
>>>>> Port renfrew itself has a native run campsite in the beach. It can
>>>>> be
>>>> a a zoo on summer weekends.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fairy lake provincial campsite is close by, but again, it can be a
zoo.
>>>>>
>>>>> The road goes north thru port renfrew, over a second bridge, and
>>>>> you
>>>> have the choice of turning left or right.
>>>>> Turning right, and this is all paved, the road winds along Harris
>>>> creek and then on to cowichan lake. This is now part of a popular
>>>> circle route back to Victoria, very popular with motorbike riders.
>>>> Some very nice views of the creek (popular in winter high water
>>>> with those crazy extreme type river kayakers). No real campsites
>>>> along the way, but old logging roads here and there if you want to
explore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back at the choice of turn, if you take the left the road winds
>>>>> north
>>>> then west to follow the Gordon river watershed and on again to
>>>> cowichan lake. The road turns to gravel after the bridge over the
>>>> Gordon. Just a little further is the famous avatar grove, big trees,
really big.
>>>>>
>>>>> We head on this road to do our camping and exploring , but turn
>>>>> off
>>>> and head west. No campsites where we go, and road can be rough. If
>>>> you are in the mood for that let me know and I can give you hints
>>>> to navigate the confusing system of logging spurs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back in the Gordon river road to cowichan. Lots of side roads,
>>>>> again
>>>> rough, to explore.
>>>>>
>>>>> What ever road, Harris or Gordon, you take you end up at cowichan
>>>> lake. You can then head east (paved) to cowichan village and then
>>>> on east to the main island Hwy and back south to Victoria. If you
>>>> do that stop at the logging museum in Duncan.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you head west (gravel) you have a couple of prov park
>>>>> choices
>>>> on the south side of the lake. And then if you continue west
>>>> towards nitinat lake, there is a somewhat hidden site on nitinat
>>>> river , nitinat falls. No organized sites, the road down is tight,
>>>> can be tricky at bottom if you want to get onto the river gravel. But
it's an option.
>>>>>
>>>>> On to a T in the road, left to nitinat village where there are
>>>>> many
>>>> kite boarders in the summer. The lake gets very windy in the summer
>>>> afternoons. Mini industry serving (originally windsurfers) kite
boarders.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the T if you go right, and over bridge that spans the nitinat
>>>>> river
>>>> ( gravel bar camping below bridge, but do you want to camp there?)
>>>> you will be on the fairly well marked road to bamfield.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can turn off that road and get lost along the way :-). One
>>>>> example
>>>> is the alternate route to bamfield that passes flora lake. Nice
>>>> little forestry campsite, buggy though, but if weather hot and dry
>>>> it's worth a stop for swim and overnight.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of my favourite watersheds, the klanawa, is reached via this way.
>>>> Lots of rugged calling to be had, again if you're game let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bamfield has marine research station and is the north end of the
>>>> famous west coast trail. Pachena bay is very much worth a visit,
>>>> somewhat like a mini long beach, but a bit more sheltered.
>>>>> There is a native run campsite near the national park there, right
>>>> near the bay.
>>>>> From bamfield you can head north east on gravel, along the side of
>>>>> the
>>>> Alberni inlet and end up at port Alberni.
>>>>> You can stock up on crack and OxyContin here :-) But has a super
>>>>> cool working steam sawmill, very much worth visit.
>>>>> Then you can head west to Tofino and long beach etc, or east back
>>>>> to
>>>> the east side of the island and the main island hwy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 30, 2016, at 8:14 AM, Bruce Todd <beeceetee@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just beginning to put the first plans together around a trip to
>>>> Vancouver
>>>>>> Island in late July early August and so I am asking the group for
>>>> great
>>>>>> suggestions of where to camp and explore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I received some really great suggestions last year from the group
>>>> that made
>>>>>> our trip to Washington & Oregon memorable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce Todd
>>>>>> 86 Westy Syncro
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>>> LinkedIn -
>>>
>>>   - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work
>>>   at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>>>   View the growing list of video work at:
>>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>>>   http://vimeo.com/42309497
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5
>>> f
>>> 80d228504902172.txt
>>
>> --
>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>> LinkedIn -
>>
>>   - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work
>>   at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>>   View the growing list of video work at:
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>>   http://vimeo.com/42309497
>>
>>
>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f
>> 8
>> 0d228504902172.txt
>
> --
> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
> http://www.tvthatworks.com
> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
> LinkedIn -
>
>   - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work
at:
>    http://www.prliving.ca/
>   View the growing list of video work at:
>   http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>   http://vimeo.com/42309497
>
>
> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f8
> 0d228504902172.txt