I never thought lithium to be all that clean. Anyway, it won't be lithium
forever.

Jim

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
wrote:

> High energy density batteries are made from expensive materials, not dirty
> materials. Elements like lithium and cobalt in particular, and represent
> 60% of the $/kWh cost. I found this an interesting read:
>
> https://qnovo.com/82-the-cost-components-of-a-battery/
>
>
>
> Energy storage is not cheap unless it’s carbon based or water behind a dam.
>
>
>
> The Nissan Leaf is available here for a $169/mo two year lease with a
> $3380 first payment ($2000 down payment plus security deposit). You can buy
> it for $33,500 or so. Nobody would buy a small, limited range car like this
> at this price since the batteries will likely fail before you pay it off,
> but the lease is subsidized to help Nissan meet the CAFE standards, and the
> future of that regulation is in doubt.
>
>
>
> I might actually consider leasing one if it wasn’t so ugly! And boy, is it
> ugly. http://www.bellevuenissan.com/bellevue-nissan-leaf-cars
>
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> From: Jim Felder [mailto:jim.felder@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:33 PM
> To: Stuart MacMillan; vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> Subject: Re: VW says it (yawn) again...the bus
>
>
>
> I'm sure the batteries are expensive because thats the way they are
> priced. Probably not all that expensive. Look at an internal combustion
> engine... the fact that you can even afford one is almost preposterous,
> it's so exact and complex. Batteries are much simpler, though probably made
> of some really dirty materials. Electric motors are cheap too, relatively.
> The recovery systems might be expensive though but won't stay that way once
> they become commonplace.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 7:24 PM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hey, we are almost into the next Friday!
>
> This should be true if it wasn't for the cost of the batteries, and it’s
> why dealers hate electric vehicles because they require almost no
> maintenance.  Look at Tesla, they don't have physical service centers, they
> are in the cloud.
>
> There goes the dealers' biggest profit center and the jobs with it.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of Jim Felder
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:23 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: VW says it (yawn) again...the bus
>
> If you left out a car's transmission, internal combustion engine, steering
> gear to the driver, brakes, instruments and other systems that keep the
> driver informed, they should be dirt cheap, right?
>
> : )
>
> Jim
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:20 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >                 BT
> >
> >         I "Sorta" 2nd that ~ Would @Least be nice to have it be
> > OwnerFixable ~
> >
> > While I Do ReallyLike the AllElectric prospects of this VW, I do Hope
> > that VW
> >
> > will market a Non-SelfDriving Version & Price it such that the Masses
> > are able
> >
> > to Afford It ~
> >
> >                                                         ORR ~ DeanB
> >
> >
> > On 9 Jan , 2017, at 8:56 PM, Bruce Todd wrote:
> >
> > > I would rather have the new concept van fix itself than drive itself.
> > >
> > > BT
> > >
> >
>