Many years ago when my wife first travelled in the ’66 Westy (even less space), she packed 3-bags of stuff … I asked her to pick one, then put the other two back in the apartment.   From that point forward only one bag was ever packed for a trip …. until there was a baby :-|

> On 06-Jan-2018, at 21:51, Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> I just found it was handy having the ability to store some tools/jack,
> small spare parts in the clamshell area rather than taking up needed space
> taking a 12yr old girl and the GF on a 12 day trip. Why do they have to
> pack so much unnecessary stuff! 3 pillows and 2 pillows, multiple
> bags...... Keep it simple/minimal ladies ;-)
> 
> On Jan 6, 2018 6:48 PM, "Alistair Bell" <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hey Stuart,
>> 
>> I know the vid, and have read a fair bit on the vanagon chassis structure
>> and the built in crash absorption ( you know what I mean ) design.
>> 
>> I believe also that some 16” Syncros had a different front carrier where
>> the spare tire usually is and that vw did make a rear mounted tire carrier.
>> Those facts and the lack of warnings in the owner’s manual about having a
>> spare in the front carrier at all times leads me to believe the spare up
>> front is not a designed part of the crash structure.
>> 
>> But I’m still keeping open mind, I’d like to hear about any vw produced
>> data stating the spare is needed in place up front.
>> 
>> Alistair
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 4:37 PM, <stuartmacm@gmail.com> <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think the spare tire idea came from this crash test video. See 1:20:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO_AfCFQR2M  This video explains the
>> front absorption zone structure and the reinforcing in the front and in the
>> doors, and doesn't show a spare tire. The Vanagon is pretty safe, except
>> for the lack of an air bag. Also see 1:20:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?
>> v=Iwa9vdq8dvw
>>> 
>>> Stuart
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of Alistair Bell
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2018 1:58 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Clamshell toolbox
>>> 
>>> I have to think that it doesn’t have any real effect on crash
>> worthiness. It seems like poor design by vw to have a removable item being
>> important to crash protection.
>>> 
>>> Poor design is an understatement, the legal liability issue is obvious.
>>> 
>>> Alistair
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 1:53 PM, Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I figure a tool box filled with tools is better than no tire at all.
>> Safer that a propane tank I'd think.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2018 3:26 PM, "Alistair Bell" <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>> You have any documentation backing this up? It’s interesting subject,
>> perhaps the owners  manual has big warnings in it saying that spare must be
>> in place all the time?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Haven’t seen those warnings but maybe you have. Not being snarky, I
>> truly would like to see the documentation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alistair
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Stacy Schneider <vwcrewman@GMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would not drive a van without a spare tire up front. The tire is
>> part of the crash worthiness of these vans.
>>>>>> I want all the protection I can get. Even if you have a rear mounted
>> tire you can always leave the stock wheel in place.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>                         Stacy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Ralph Meyermann <
>> ralphmeyermann@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No pics yet, I have some of my original adapted one. The refined
>>>>>>> version should be lighter/cleaner looking and seal out the
>>>>>>> elements better. Weight depends on how much tools/parts you cram
>>>>>>> inside. Mine got kinda heavy for the 12day 3k mile West coast trip
>> and back.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2018 1:09 PM, "Chris S" <szpejankowski@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I like the idea. Extra diesel fuel tank? My thought is that
>>>>>>>> anything heavy in spare tire cavity will be difficult to close. Got
>> pics?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Wiadomość napisana przez Ralph Meyermann
>>>>>>>>> <ralphmeyermann@GMAIL.COM> w
>>>>>>>> dniu 06.01.2018, o godz. 10:34:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Howdy Volks.  After going with a rear spare tire carrier, I was
>>>>>>>>> pondering what to do with that available space. I ended up
>>>>>>>>> adapting my home made larger clamshell/tire carrier into a
>> toolbox. I found it handy.
>>>>>>>> Currently I
>>>>>>>>> took it to my machine/Fab shop guys to make a refined
>> design/prototype.
>>>>>>>>> Roughly 27"x 27" the front of it has 45° angles on the sides and
>> 7"
>>>>>>>> tall.
>>>>>>>>> The first quote was $211.  I went downs and verified a few
>>>>>>>>> design aspects including a better sealing surface for the lid and
>> how it fastens down.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> first one/prototype is currently being built. Looking at
>>>>>>>>> $211-$250 final cost from machine shop, I don't know what
>>>>>>>>> shipping or anything could be yet. Hopefully It'll be what I
>>>>>>>>> envision and be able to have them
>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>> for those with alternative spare tire carriers. Storage is worth
>>>>>>>>> it's weight in gold, Westy or tin top.
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>