If we were that concerned about crash safety, we'd be driving eurovans!
Eeew!  No airbags, minimal crumple zones. We die like men! Ha!

On Jan 6, 2018 11:03 PM, "KI4TLF" <ki4tlf@gmail.com> wrote:

Stuart,

That’s similar to the one that I saw, but in the "read more" section it had
a link to a report on the design of the crash zone structure of the T3.  It
explained the spare tire was part of the lower crash structure by
transferring the load in a standard crash to the front suspension
structure.  That’s shown starting at 1.20 in the first video you listed.

GregM

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart MacMillan
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 6:37 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Clamshell toolbox

I think the spare tire idea came from this crash test video. See 1:20:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO_AfCFQR2M  This video explains the front
absorption zone structure and the reinforcing in the front and in the
doors, and doesn't show a spare tire. The Vanagon is pretty safe, except
for the lack of an air bag. Also see 1:20:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=Iwa9vdq8dvw

Stuart

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Alistair Bell
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2018 1:58 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Clamshell toolbox

I have to think that it doesn’t have any real effect on crash worthiness.
It seems like poor design by vw to have a removable item being important to
crash protection.

Poor design is an understatement, the legal liability issue is obvious.

Alistair

> On Jan 6, 2018, at 1:53 PM, Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> I figure a tool box filled with tools is better than no tire at all.
Safer that a propane tank I'd think.
>
>> On Jan 6, 2018 3:26 PM, "Alistair Bell" <albell@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> You have any documentation backing this up? It’s interesting subject,
perhaps the owners  manual has big warnings in it saying that spare must be
in place all the time?
>>
>> Haven’t seen those warnings but maybe you have. Not being snarky, I
truly would like to see the documentation.
>>
>> Alistair
>>
>> > On Jan 6, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Stacy Schneider <vwcrewman@GMAIL.COM>
wrote:
>> >
>> > I would not drive a van without a spare tire up front. The tire is
part of the crash worthiness of these vans.
>> >  I want all the protection I can get. Even if you have a rear mounted
tire you can always leave the stock wheel in place.
>> >
>> >                           Stacy
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Jan 6, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann@GMAIL.COM>
wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No pics yet, I have some of my original adapted one. The refined
>> >> version should be lighter/cleaner looking and seal out the
>> >> elements better. Weight depends on how much tools/parts you cram
>> >> inside. Mine got kinda heavy for the 12day 3k mile West coast trip
and back.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Jan 6, 2018 1:09 PM, "Chris S" <szpejankowski@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I like the idea. Extra diesel fuel tank? My thought is that
>> >>> anything heavy in spare tire cavity will be difficult to close. Got
pics?
>> >>>
>> >>> Chris
>> >>>
>> >>>> Wiadomość napisana przez Ralph Meyermann
>> >>>> <ralphmeyermann@GMAIL.COM> w
>> >>> dniu 06.01.2018, o godz. 10:34:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Howdy Volks.  After going with a rear spare tire carrier, I was
>> >>>> pondering what to do with that available space. I ended up
>> >>>> adapting my home made larger clamshell/tire carrier into a toolbox.
I found it handy.
>> >>> Currently I
>> >>>> took it to my machine/Fab shop guys to make a refined
design/prototype.
>> >>>> Roughly 27"x 27" the front of it has 45° angles on the sides and  7"
>> >>> tall.
>> >>>> The first quote was $211.  I went downs and verified a few
>> >>>> design aspects including a better sealing surface for the lid and
how it fastens down.
>> >>> The
>> >>>> first one/prototype is currently being built. Looking at
>> >>>> $211-$250 final cost from machine shop, I don't know what
>> >>>> shipping or anything could be yet. Hopefully It'll be what I
>> >>>> envision and be able to have them
>> >>> available
>> >>>> for those with alternative spare tire carriers. Storage is worth
>> >>>> it's weight in gold, Westy or tin top.
>> >>>