The engine turns maybe 270-300 degrees.  I can see all three TC bolts and
checked them for tightness.  All were tight.  All three bolts that fasten
the transmission to the engine are tight.  No sepration.  I took all the
belts off and the starter out.  All spin freely but the engine still will
not rotate 360 degrees.  I checked for obstructions around the pulleys and
around the TC.  Nothing found.  What is puzzling is that I expect to hear a
metallic sound when I turn the engine to the stop points.  I hear nothing.

I have gathered my tools and have done a survey of what needs to be undone
to slide the transmission back.  I am starting in a few minutes.

Thanks again for your thoughts.  Will let you know how it goes.  Going home
to Ohio Wed. AM so want this this thing running for my son before I leave.

Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida

On June 23, 2018 10:22:11 Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:

> A few thoughts. The top bolt on the starter does not just hold the starter.
> It is actually one of 4 threaded fasteners  then hold the engine to the
> transmission. They are critical. While that one was loose the other three
> could have also failed causing movement capable of damaging the flex plate.
> Check the other 3 and check that engine is still tight to the transmission.
>
> How far can you turn the engine? 1/4 turn, almost 360? Take the starter
> back out, will it turn then? Can you turn it enough to actually check all 3
> of the flex plate to torque converter bolts? How about the rear pulley?
> Maybe something fell in there.
> As for moving the transmission your steps below you can almost completely
> remove. Just removing the flex plate bolts the torque convert will slide
> forward enough to turn freely from the engine. That will allow you to
> isolate TC or engine.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of Tom Stone
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 6:26 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Engine Puzzlememt
>
> So since you are more familiar with what is needed to properly diagnose my
> problem, let me ask you this: If I support the engine, unbolt the TC from
> the flex plate, unbolt the front trans mount, can I pull the trans away
> from the engine enough to get a good look/see?
>
> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>
> On June 22, 2018 6:05:16 PM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of course you will need to support the engine and tranny and remove
>> the rear mount, but it’s worth a try before disconnecting everything.
>>
>>> On Jun 22, 2018, at 2:14 PM, Tom Stone <tstone8359@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for your suggestions.  I'll take a look at what it will take
>>> to get the tranny out and back in.
>>>
>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>>>
>>>> On June 22, 2018 4:28:46 PM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, if it won’t turn 360 with the starter off it’s time to pull
>>>> the tranny. It’s something in the bell housing jamming the TC or
>>>> flex plate, or even something inside the engine. 😕
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 22, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Tom Stone <tstone8359@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I took the starter out and spun the engine by hand as far as it would go.
>>>>> Other than some shiny teeth, probably from the starter
>>>>> misalignment, I didn't see any major damage.  The ring gear is
>>>>> pretty hefty.  How can I see the rest of the ring gear and what
>>>>> would damage that would stop engine rotation look like?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>>>>>
>>>>>> On June 22, 2018 14:19:25 Tom Stone <tstone8359@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I took the plugs out and tried to turn the engine by hand in both
>>>>>> directions.  It stopped in the same places.  I removed or
>>>>>> disconnected all of the components connected to the engine
>>>>>> yesterday.  They all spun freely, but the engine would not.  I
>>>>>> will pull the starter off again and inspect the ring gear.  Thanks for the
>>>>>> suggestion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On June 22, 2018 14:00:55 "Stuart MacMillan" <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you using your hands on the pulley (or belt) to turn over the
>>>>>>> engine, which should be fairly easy with plugs out, or the
>>>>>>> starter? If you can turn the engine around fully by hand but not
>>>>>>> with the starter, you have a badly damaged ring gear on the
>>>>>>> torque converter.  Probably happened when the starter mount was broken due
>>>>>>> to misalignment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Dennis Haynes
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 10:35 AM
>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Engine Puzzlememt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Short bolt bottom of starter?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Tom Stone<mailto:tstone8359@aol.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 12:22 PM
>>>>>>> To: Dennis Haynes<mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com<mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Engine Puzzlememt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Dennis and Jim.  I pulled the spark plugs and there were
>>>>>>> no fluids inside the cylinders.  Manually turned engine to stop
>>>>>>> point in both directions.  It stops in the same places.  I
>>>>>>> checked all three torque converter bolts.  All seem tight.  Going
>>>>>>> to remove some exhaust pieces to verify.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since the last change made to the engine was the installation of
>>>>>>> the starter long bolt, I am looking for some kind of obstruction in that area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your always helpful suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On June 21, 2018 19:08:09 Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look for a loose torque converter bolt. One of the three between
>>>>>>> converter and flex plate or something fell in there. Also, if
>>>>>>> multiple tries to crank engine the cylinders could be locked up
>>>>>>> with gasoline. Remove the spark plugs and check.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Tom Stone<mailto:tstone8359@AOL.COM>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 6:01 PM
>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>>>> Subject: Engine Puzzlememt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Working on my son's '91 Westy Automatic. New engine from the guy
>>>>>>> that took over Boston Bob's business. It was installed and
>>>>>>> running. The starter had been installed with only the short bolt
>>>>>>> which had loosened. The starter lost ground and would only work
>>>>>>> intermittently. Then the bolt ear broke. I got a new starter and
>>>>>>> the long bolt and installed it with both bolts. Now the engine
>>>>>>> will only rotate to a certain point and stop. I can manually turn
>>>>>>> the engine backwards and it stops turning at just before the stop
>>>>>>> point. I took the starter off and ran it. I took the belts off the P/S
>>>>>>> pump, the alternator and the water pump (A/C not connected) and they all
>>>>>>> turn freely.
>>>>>>> I took the valve covers off and without being able to rotate the
>>>>>>> engine, visually checked for a valve stem in each keeper. I am at
>>>>>>> a loss for what to look at next and what might have happened.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in FL where it is hot!