Tom, as I stated in the first post I made, the techs who have worked on my
AC put dye in the refrigerant.  I saw the stains where an o-ring leaked.
mcneely

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:23 AM Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:

> Not all refrigerant oil contains dye.
>
> And Freon bleeding past the compressor front seal won't carry much oil
> unless it becomes a major leak. There's only a small oil film at the seal.
>
> It's not like a hose leak where oil being pumped around along with the
> Freon blows out with the Freon.
>
> Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com – Electric Brewery Info
> www.towercooler.com – Beer Tower Cooler
> http://goo.gl/niRzVw - My Amazon Store
> www.brew-control.com – Electric Brewery Marketing and Direct Sales
> http://www.hackpilot.com/roadkill/ - A little twisted humor
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
> Of David McNeely
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 11:29 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
>
> Wouldn't the dye in the refrigerant reveal that leak, Tom?
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:58 PM Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>
> > Could be the compressor front seal. The seal is just an oil film
> > between very close fitting parts.
> >
> > Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> > www.kegkits.com – Electric Brewery Info www.towercooler.com – Beer
> > Tower Cooler http://goo.gl/niRzVw - My Amazon Store
> > www.brew-control.com – Electric Brewery Marketing and Direct Sales
> > http://www.hackpilot.com/roadkill/ - A little twisted humor
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
> > Behalf Of Stephen Grisanti
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 11:19 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
> >
> >  A Samba thread on R134a conversion from a few years ago involved
> > replacing all the hoses.  He removed them and had a shop put the stock
> > ends on new barrier hose, as I recall, and I think he reported it cost
> > about
> > $200 at the time.
> > I can never find the link when I want to but it involved an '87 Westy
> > like mine. Stephen
> >     On Monday, April 13, 2020, 10:57:02 PM EDT, David McNeely <
> > davmcneely40@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Tom, I don't know if your response was meant for me.  I converted to
> > R134a long ago.  Cools great when it gets a new charge, but leaks down
> > over half the summer, and no one can find the leak.  So, I thought --
> > based on Denis's comment to the original poster, "Aha, might be
> > hoses."  mcneely
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 6:56 PM Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > If you are considering swapping to R134a, by now the old hoses
> > > should not be an issue because they have been fully saturated with
> > > refrigerant oil and won't leak.
> > >
> > > But like someone else mentioned the tough part will be to find
> > > someone willing to convert your system. Most AC shops dumped or
> > > upgraded their
> > > R12 recovery systems long ago, when the R12 to R134 conversion
> > > business finally went away.
> > >
> > > You will have three issues with a conversion.
> > >
> > > 1. A conversion drops about 20% of the system's cooling capacity.
> > > 2. The expansion valve is the wrong size and should be replaced.
> > > 3. The compressor front seal will leak R134a because its molecule
> > > size is smaller than R12.
> > >
> > > In other words, to do it right you have to replace the compressor,
> > > receiver dryer and expansion valve and you still lose about 20% of
> > > the system's capacity.
> > >
> > > You are better off testing for pressure. If your system still
> > > retains any pressure by now, have it serviced and drive it as is.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> > > www.kegkits.com – Electric Brewery Info www.towercooler.com – Beer
> > > Tower Cooler http://goo.gl/niRzVw - My Amazon Store
> > > www.brew-control.com – Electric Brewery Marketing and Direct Sales
> > > http://www.hackpilot.com/roadkill/ - A little twisted humor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
> > > Behalf Of David McNeely
> > > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:21 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
> > >
> > > Dennis, you said that the original poster's "... hoses are also old
> > > and not designed for R134a."  Some years ago, I had my AC system
> > > (1991 VW Vanagon GL Campmobile) converted to R134a. Based on
> > > extensive investigation before having the conversion done, I believe
> > > everything except hoses was done. The system has never held
> > > refrigerant well since.  It will cool beautifully after a fill, then
> > > drop off in effectiveness until it is kaput about half summer
> > > through.  It has had dye added to the refrigerant, and searched for
> > > leaks, with none evident.  Could the old hoses (originals) be the
> problem?
> > >
> > > Thank you, mcneely
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 12:54 PM Dennis Haynes
> > > <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > FWIW since you are asking this question you probably should not be
> > > > servicing the AC system without some help. Since the system has
> > > > been neglected it is likely to be contaminated with moisture and
> > > > the oil probably also needs to be serviced. The proper procedure
> > > > would be to test for pressure and have anything inside it
> > > > recovered. Good luck finding a shop with R12 recovery equipment.
> > > > Sell the cans. You will need about 1,300 grams to fill an empty
> system. AC systems are magic.
> > > > Even under pressure they somehow manage to get moisture inside.
> > > > Most likely small leaks on the suction side including the
> > > > compressor shaft
> > > seal.
> > > >
> > > > If the system was really empty for a long time then the
> > > > receiver/dryer should be replaced and it would be a good idea to
> > > > change the compressor oil and plan to convert to R134a or one of
> > > > the other "magic" refrigerants out there.
> > > >
> > > > Then you pressurize the system with nitrogen and ensure it can
> > > > hold pressure, at least overnight.
> > > > Then you need to evacuate the system. The longer the better. You
> > > > want to boil off all moisture and other contaminants in the system.
> > > > A small amount of moisture can play all sorts of havoc. The
> > > > nastiest is ice crystals blocking the expansion valve and causing
> > > > the compressor to dead head. The
> > > > 85 does not have much in the way of safeties and even better
> > > > systems this will often result in blown compressors, hoses, switches
> etc.
> > > > Then charge, by weight. They say R134a should be 80-85% of the
> > > > fill for R12. I find the Vanagon really works best 1,300-1,400 grams.
> > > > Don't forget the add the required amount of compressor oil. If
> > > > still some mineral oil in there use Ester. If you really got the
> > > > system cleaned you can use the preferred PAG oil for R134.
> > > >
> > > > The earlier AC systems are a bit disappointing especially the
> campers.
> > > > Upgrading the condenser to one of the parallel flow universal ones
> > > > help a lot. They also allow for better airflow helping both the AC
> > > > and
> > > radiator.
> > > > Your hoses are also old and not designed for R134a. Typically
> > > > though the common leak points are the condenser, the compressor
> > > > and the receiver dryer.
> > > >
> > > > Dennis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > > Behalf Of Spencer Allen
> > > > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 10:36 AM
> > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > > Subject: found some freon 12 should I recharge old AC
> > > >
> > > > Found two 1LB cans of R12 in my late uncles garage. My 85 Westys
> > > > AC worked when I bought it 20 years ago but only used it a couple
> > > > of times at first and then not at all. It's probably been 15 years
> > > > since I last used it and it blew cold during that time. Since then
> > > > on the occasions when I turn it on just to run it no cold air
> > > > comes out. I hear this old stuff is really expensive so since I
> > > > have these
> > > > (free) cans sitting here I'm tempted to hook up my hoses and
> > > > recharge
> > system.
> > > > Any thoughts or input on this idea?Spencer85Westy
> > > >
> > > -----
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date:
> > > 08/14/18 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > >
> > >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date:
> > 08/14/18 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> >
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>
>