Hey Y'all,

Just to be clear, I made an assumption that what you call a logging road, I call a forest Service road. I've only ever camped on FS roads and never on logging roads. 

Thank You,

Ken
(941) 323-4710

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 7:42 AM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>                 Dear Seemingly UnAble to address People By Name
> 
> What's Up With That, RW  ??
> 
>                                        ORR ~ DeanB
> 
>> On 21 Jul , 2020, at 12:43 AM, Roger Whittaker wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Logging adventure folks
>> 
>> "There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe
>> we can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how
>> wrong/stupid/naive the rest of us are."
>> 
>> I see no assumptions -- I see a list of questions that anyone attempting to
>> travel on an INDUSTRIAL ROAD potentially filled with INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH
>> traffic should ask their self -
>> i also see a list of stuff that I have encountered while working in that
>> environment -
>> 
>> Your original question was about being a newbie on logging roads and how a
>> trailer would handle -
>> indeed it is "I know several of you travel the logging roads for
>> camping/exploring.
>> *Having just done this last week, for my first time*,"
>> 
>> I still believe more importantly the question should be how does the
>> operator handle self and are they prepared for the unpredictability of
>> the situation they are entering
>> 
>> You can take the remarks any way you like :)
>> 
>> Not trying to point out how stupid anyone is -
>> Caps are for emphasis -
>> currently in my community there is a raging battle going on between people
>> who want trails to be walking only and those who utilize mountain bike -
>> this is just a smaller argument of the access to logging roads and the
>> belief that tax payers pay for them so why should there be gates and cement
>> blocks or rocks blocking access -
>> Typically the roads are private or paid for by stumpage and maintained by
>> logging company - typically the logging company may be liable for what
>> happens on them -
>> And as said -- in Canada the logging roads are often part of FN territory -
>> with many restrictions - LIke right now - FN have restrictions up
>> against any outsiders entering their lands due to COVID -
>> 
>> I have had to put work plans together to manage public access to areas that
>> the public thought they had a right to enter and camp in - or drive through
>> - or simply hang around exploring for the day -
>> After plan implemented - we have to go back three days later and replace
>> all the barriers due to destruction completed by those who wanted to travel
>> the area - regardless of fish habitat or danger due to potential of dam
>> opening - or active blasting etc
>> 
>> If you did not know there was so many pieces to the puzzle - that is fine -
>> many dont - no need to be 'hurt' because the pieces of the puzzle have been
>> presented -
>> 
>> I do annual Safety talks for logging companies - i speak for close to 6
>> hours on a day that starts at 7 am -
>> WCB rep speaks for the other hour -
>> I have investigated numerous incidents -
>> I have read a bazziolon reports of other incidents - on logging roads and
>> countless other terrain -
>> I charge 1000$ for the day of  Safety talk - typically anywhere from 50 to
>> 100 guys & gals in the room
>> 
>> I also hosted two seperate safety conferences with budgets >10K for the day
>> -
>> 100% supported by community - and free for workers to attend -
>> Safety is 2 things - being prepared for the eventual likely hood of an
>> event and dealing with the event when it happens
>> 
>> I begin every talk by asking for the stupid people to raise thier hand - no
>> one does (maybe i should have started my response that way ??_ )
>> No one ever raises their hand and i say _ Good I am glad to see that
>> becasue I dont think any company hires stupid people - So I do not want to
>> hear foreman or supervisors saying what ever incident we are talking about
>> today was just stupid - or you cant fix stupid - because stupid does not
>> work here -
>> 
>> I have been doing these talks since  2001
>> and i am not even the smartest log in the wood pile - indeed all my real
>> credentials are is i will stand and deliver for 5-7 hours and still make
>> sense -
>> 
>> Enjoy the journey :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:40 PM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Roger,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the insights but wow that’s a lot of  caps key and caffeine.
>>> There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe we
>>> can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how wrong/stupid/naive
>>> the rest of us are.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Harry
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:21 PM Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Would be Logging Road Traveler
>>>> 
>>>> I spent a number of years as safety manager for a builder of logging
>>>> roads -
>>>> On a logging road - ANY TIME  IS LOADED LOGGING TRUCK TIME -
>>>> 
>>>> There are some who view these roads as free for all to use any time they
>>>> want -
>>>> This is not the case -
>>>> Question # one - are your tires rated for stones and extra rough road -
>>>> are all your joints and steering components greased -
>>>> Question # two if you have a failure of any of  items can you get off
>>>> road on your own power - so as not to block road -
>>>> Question # three Who is your travel plan filed with - does cell phone
>>>> work there or do you have a HOT SPOT with text capability -
>>>> Question # Four - You know that AAA or CAA will not come and fetch you -
>>>> 
>>>> A> In Canada very often the logging road will lead to - or cross an
>>>> Indian Reservation and that First Nation may have jurisdictional sway over
>>>> traffic flow and permissions to travel
>>>> B> Nearly every logging road has a sign at the place where the Logging
>>>> Road intersects highway - that sign will delineate behaviors to be followed
>>>> on the road - during active haul times -
>>>> ACTIVE HAUL TIMES ARE ANYTIME - even if the sign offers typical times -
>>>> you could meet a truck coming 'DOWN LOADED' at any time - Lets say the
>>>> logging roads active hours are 3 am to 3 pm monday to saturday - you
>>>> arrive at road side at 5 pm saturday evening -
>>>> 1. DO YOU have a radio that can be tuned to frequency used by haulers on
>>>> that road?
>>>> 2. DO YOU know for sure that every truck up Empty has Come down loaded ?
>>>> 3. Do you have any way to announce your intention to travel up ?
>>>> 4. Are Loaded Trucks your only concern ?
>>>> 5. Do you know that the mechanics and service trucks have all booked off
>>>> for the night and are safely off road ?
>>>> 6. DO you know what a turn out on the road is for ?
>>>> 7. DO YOU know if logger's ambulance is not heading out with injured
>>>> workers - they typically DO NOT have sirens -
>>>> 
>>>> THERE ARE SEVERAL SECTIONS Around here that are deemed LEFT HAND UP -
>>>> LEFT HAND DOWN - does driver understand fully the consequence of not being
>>>> on the proper side of the road??
>>>> Then there is the idea of your own trailer -
>>>> 1. If you have a trailer breakdown along the way does your vehicle have
>>>> the ability to pull trailer off the road ?
>>>> 2. if you are caught in a jackpot - not even your own jackpot - lets say
>>>> a logging truck has left the road and you are held up from your desired
>>>> camping spot while they extricate the upset truck - which may involve
>>>> getting a load of heavy equipment (or two) past your rig - can you get your
>>>> rig sufficiently off the road -- DO YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG ?? DO
>>>> YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG IN THE DARK ? CAN YOU DO A THREE POINT
>>>> REVERSE TURN WITH YOUR RIG ?? -- IF YOU ANSWER no TO ANY OF THESE - you
>>>> should not be on Logging road with a rig -- and preferably you should be
>>>> able to answer yes to all three questions - If you are answering no to any
>>>> of these three questions you need to practice - Not a Joke !!
>>>> 
>>>> More over if you are held up are you or your guests going to be idiots
>>>> demanding that road be cleared to let you get on your way - (real world
>>>> events - that happened to me ) more than once - and once during active
>>>> blasting - had to get local law enforcement involved in that one -
>>>> Along with that police or first responders may not have a clue where you
>>>> are or how to get to you if you require rescue (do you have a GPS device )
>>>> NOT A phone but a dedicated GPS -
>>>> 
>>>> Second to that - what do you do when you reach a rope across road that
>>>> has a sign remarking about active falling - or active blasting -
>>>> DO YOU take rope down and continue because the sign is only to inform
>>>> loggers and you are not a logger ???
>>>> DO YOU Take rope down and leave it on the ground because it is after 3 PM
>>>> on a Friday - the loggers can put it back when they come to work ?
>>>> Do you know what blaster signals mean ?? do you know how close to the
>>>> back of a logging truck you can travel to be outside the swing zone ?
>>>> 
>>>> Sometimes two or three loaded trucks will head down and only the first
>>>> one will call miles on the way down - the first one goes by and the haplass
>>>> traveler pulls back onto road only to meet truck #2 head on - and yes this
>>>> is a real world event that happened -
>>>> 
>>>> One afternoon i was heading down - part way down i had that huge urge of
>>>> nature calling right now - in only the way a rough and bouncy logging road
>>>> can produce in the late afternoon -
>>>> I stopped my pick up - I had not heard a call out on the radio -- but a
>>>> little voice in my head told me to pull as far to the left as possible - so
>>>> before exiting truck i did that - pulled my pick up off into a turn out -
>>>> and let nature call - just as I was finishing that 'streaming episode' a
>>>> loaded truck down roared past my location - I had no idea they were there -
>>>> -
>>>> 
>>>> on another occasion I was coming down and met a camper on way up - truck
>>>> with camper and loaded with family kids and all - I let them know there was
>>>> both active falling and active blasting on going that day - they told me
>>>> not to mind about them as they were going up early to get a good spot - --
>>>> They had no radio =--- with out telling them i radioed up to road channel
>>>> that this ship of sillies was on the way into an active work area --
>>>> 
>>>> Use abundant caution my friends when on logging roads - they are called
>>>> logging roads due to the reason for creation - they are not called lets go
>>>> camping roads
>>>> 
>>>> AND I HAVE not even addressed the multitude of walkers - people on bikes
>>>> - people on horses - or joe racing becky on ATV to see who gets to lake
>>>> first -
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:00 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and helpful guidance!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Harry
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:52 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Volks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know several of you travel the logging roads for camping/exploring.
>>>>>> Having just done this last week, for my first time, I was wondering if
>>>>>> anyone has brought trailers along? The roads are really rough so I
>>>>>> wasn't sure how well a trailer would handle the roads.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Harry
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>>>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>>>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>>>> LinkedIn -
>>>> 
>>>>  - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work
>>>>  at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>>>>  View the growing list of video work at:
>>>>  http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>>>>  http://vimeo.com/42309497
>>>> 
>>>>  http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS &
>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>> LinkedIn -
>> 
>>  - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work at:
>>   http://www.prliving.ca/
>>  View the growing list of video work at:
>>  http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>>  http://vimeo.com/42309497
>> 
>>  http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt