Yes, I was talking about a non air conditioning set up.

I have a friend that has a weekender with few cabinets left.  He put the foam piece on the rear side.  But still the front is narrow.  His van is beautiful on the outside but for me a mess of items on the inside.  The cabinets keep a incredible amount of gear neatly stored.  And the small partial grain on part of the bed is not the same as gaining a queen size bed like the passenger vans sometimes have.

My tall friends sleep with feet hanging off the bed head to the back of van.  I sleep with sheets with head toward front.  I’m under 6 feet tall so that works great for me. I have slept the other way and find it harder to get in and out of the bed.  
        Still options are nice. 

Eric 

> On Oct 13, 2021, at 6:29 PM, David McNeely <davmcneely40@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Stuart, Yes, what you said makes sense.  My wife and I always sleep
> head to the rear, just seemed automatically the thing to to -- and no
> having to flip to get out of be, just scoot to the foot of the bed.  At 76
> yo, I certainly understand about loss of flexibility!  I have also thought
> about switching to home type bedding from the sleeping bag for the
> flexibility reasons.
> 
> Thanks again, mcneely
> 
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:46 PM <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> In my '68 Westy I removed the spare tire from the same spot the Vanagon
>> closet is in and cut a piece of foam to fill in the cushion. You can do the
>> same in the Vanagon if you remove the rear closet, but only your legs will
>> get more room.  Your shoulders will still be confined by the other
>> cabinets. Or the converse is true if you sleep with your head to the rear.
>> I've found sleeping head to the rear requires more flexibility than I now
>> have to get out of the bed and can't be done without disturbing my wife.
>> Also, keep in mind that removing the rear closet is more complicated if you
>> have AC.
>> 
>> Stuart
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of David
>> McNeely
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 7:20 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Rear closet permanent removal Was: Rear closet temporary
>> removal
>> 
>> Ah, Richard, I misunderstood your original comments.  I thought you said
>> you had removed the closet, and had a regular, narrow bed with a space
>> where the closet would be.  SOMEONE did say that, but I can't find the
>> original post.  So, whoever said that, or anyone else with knowledge of
>> that setup, please comment in response to my above question if you can.
>> 
>> mcneely
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 3:25 PM Richard Koerner <rjkinpb@sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dave, I'm not exactly sure how to answer.  Since my first tintop in
>>> 1974 and now on my Vanagon, I have always had a full width bed.  It of
>>> course is about the same size as a Queen, but effectively even bigger
>>> since you can't roll off the edge of the bed!  On hot nights, no
>> crowding each other.
>>> Anyway, I wouldn't have it any other way.  Duffle bags in the daytime
>>> go to the front seats at night; simple as that.  Fun fact:  this trip
>>> marks 47 years of VW Van trips all across the country....and there is
>>> always something new to see.
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 12:18:51 PM CDT, David McNeely <
>>> davmcneely40@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hmmm.... .  Never even thought about removing the closet, though I,
>>> like some others, have sometimes cursed it, and certainly would like a
>>> wider bed, especially as both Bonnie and I have aged and find the
>>> narrow bed more confining than in the past.  Now that I have read
>>> these comments, and the instructions on how to remove the closet, I
>>> might consider that.  After all, I can organize the things I put there
>>> perfectly well otherwise.  Like some others, I have never, ever, hung
>>> any clothing items there.  The main compartment serves for bedding
>>> mainly, and then for storage of items during camping.  We use sleeping
>>> bags rather than home style bedding, for the convenience of storage
>>> and mainly for the warmth.  They "store" almost anywhere stuffed into
>> bags.
>>> 
>>> The smaller, rearmost compartments I use for the same items as Eric does.
>>> Spare oil and filter also go there, and a few tools.  I could put
>>> everything there in a small case.
>>> 
>>> I have at times considered putting in the door on the side of the
>>> closet that someone from Canada once described on here, and actually
>>> bought the parts to do it, but have never gotten around to it.
>>> 
>>> So, even though the bed would still not be any wider, does not having
>>> the closet there make it effectively roomier, Richard?
>>> 
>>> mcneely
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 6:59 AM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I changed the subject so that I can keep them straight and for
>> archives.
>>>> 
>>>> Recently my closet has become much more useful.  So I’m In the keep
>>>> it camp.
>>>> 
>>>> The three rear compartments in the closet organize items really
>>>> well.  I can easily find items from extension chords, rear screen,
>>>> hatch opener lock-on and on.  I even found a low cost organizer for
>>>> the back part between the door that holds useful small items.
>>>> Rather then crowded I
>>> have
>>>> spaced things out to help with finding things or room for special
>>>> items for  different trips.
>>>> 
>>>> The large portion is not used for hanging close but rather bedding,
>>>> pillows, and both bags of clothes. It is amazing how useful the
>>>> cabinet space is when I set it up for a trip.  There can be very
>>>> little in the living space.  Once I arrive I pop the top, put the
>>>> bags on the Buese
>>> shelf
>>>> or up above, make the bed and the closet is empty and ready to
>>>> gather
>>> loose
>>>> items like stuff sacks and such.
>>>> 
>>>>       So, I can see the usefulness of the removal but I love the
>>>> organization, look, and neatness of this closet option.  But hang up
>>>> close?  Not for me but I bet someone out there loves that option!
>>>> 
>>>> Someone on this list once described the Vanagon as the Swiss Army
>>>> knife
>>> of
>>>> vehicles.  I think that is an accurate description.  And the removal
>>>> and return of the rear cabinet, depending on current needs only adds
>> to that!
>>>> 
>>>> But, for me over time the cabinets have become more and more useful.
>>>> 
>>>> Eric Caron
>>>>> On Oct 12, 2021, at 3:32 AM, Mark Belanger <mbelanger@GMAIL.COM>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hook? My '91 has a bar going across...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -MB
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 6:45 PM Jeff Palmer
>>>>> <w.jeff.palmer@icloud.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> So I actually like and use the closet :) Freshly pressed shirts
>>>>>> for
>>> job
>>>>>> interviews.  T-shirts easier to hang than fold.  I’ve been using
>>>>>> one
>>> of
>>>>>> those shoe storage hanging thingys for the last little bit to
>>>>>> store
>>> odds
>>>>>> and ends.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If I could choose a wider bed I would, but since I’m stuck with
>>>>>> the
>>> one
>>>> I
>>>>>> have … I guess the bed can best be described as ‘romantic?'
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But then the hook in the closet broke off.  I’ve never heard of
>>>>>> that happening before.  And it seems like I’ll have to pul the
>>>>>> cabinet to
>>> be
>>>>>> able to access and repair.  So this thread is timely!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 9:23 PM, Alfred Bagdan <abagdan@SHAW.CA>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When I was remodeling my house, I removed all the innards so I
>>>>>>> could
>>>> use
>>>>>> the van for hauling construction materials.  When I put it back
>>>> together, I
>>>>>> did not put the closet back in.  I put a couple of screws in to
>>>>>> the
>>>> ceiling
>>>>>> to hold up the top of the cabinet,  since the closet was not
>>>>>> there
>>>> anymore
>>>>>> to support it.  To hang up clothes I put some hooks at the end of
>>>>>> the
>>>> top
>>>>>> cabinet.  These are some of the advantages of not having the closet:
>>>>>>> Better vision through the rear window Less weight to haul around
>>>>>>> More width to haul wide items,  for example a queen size bed,
>>>>>>> sheets
>>> of
>>>>>> plywood, etc ...
>>>>>>> More room to move around when using the bed It feels airier
>>>>>>> inside  ...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Alfred, 85 Westy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Richard Koerner
>>>>>>> Sent: October 11, 2021 7:16 PM
>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Rear closet temporary removal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Okay, okay....this is from a Tintop guy with a homemade camper
>>>> situation
>>>>>> inside.  I never fully understood the rationale behind the "closet".
>>>> Seems
>>>>>> to me, that it takes up a LOT of bedspace, and after all, that's
>>>>>> why
>>> we
>>>>>> live in a van, so we can sleep inside.  Adds weight of course.
>>>>>> What,
>>>> are
>>>>>> you going to travel cross-country with nicely hanged clothes?
>>>>>>> All right...I realize I am going to step on toes of many fellow
>>> Vanagon
>>>>>> owners with this comment.
>>>>>>> Currently in West Texas, from San Diego to Mississippi River and
>>> headed
>>>>>> back home.  All clothes nice in duffle bags; ready for laundry
>>>>>> day at nearest spot I will admit.
>>>>>>> But, I still don't understand the utility of the "closet".
>>>>>>> Yikes!  Flames a'comin'!!!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Monday, October 11, 2021, 08:04:41 PM CDT, Jim. Felder <
>>>>>> jim.felder@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven’t done this in a while but it doesnt take very long and
>>>>>>> isn’t
>>>> all
>>>>>>> that difficult especially with help. The closet is a tight fit
>>>>>>> and
>>> if I
>>>>>>> recall, you will have to slide it over toward the center of the
>>>>>>> car,
>>>> plus
>>>>>>> turn it around, so that it can be laid over and slipped out the
>> back.
>>>> No
>>>>>>> need to remove the twin-too cabinet but if you take out the
>>>>>>> panel
>>> under
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> seat you can do that too. If you want to get behind the wall
>>>>>>> behind
>>> the
>>>>>>> double top cabinet you will have to pull out the kitchen unit.
>>>>>>> This
>>>> will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> easy now but you will have to take all the LP gas plumbing out
>>>>>>> and
>>> take
>>>>>>> wiring loose. Just be very careful you don’t pull any wires
>>>>>>> loose and
>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>> where every single connector goes back to. And there are many by
>>>>>>> the
>>>> time
>>>>>>> you get down to the water tank. But it won’t take as long as it
>>>>>>> sound
>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> it will. Reassembly is a bit harder but not too bad.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 7:55 PM Eric Caron
>>>>>>> <ericcaron96@comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’ve never removed my rear closet. I’m planning to eventually
>>>>>>>> take
>>> it
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> to hopefully access some of the area on the side of the van for
>>> sound
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> vibration material.  I also want to get behind the siding for
>>>>>>>> the
>>> wire
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the rear upper GW brake light.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Can I remove the bolts connecting the closet to the upper
>>>>>>>> cabinet,
>>>> side
>>>>>>>> cabinet, upper shelf and the floor then pull out to access some
>>>>>>>> of
>>>> that
>>>>>>>> area? Is there more to it and some problem areas?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>       Will this allow me to access some of the side of the van?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I don’t plan at this time to get into any other cabinet moving
>>>>>>>> but
>>>> would
>>>>>>>> like to access as much as I can.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Is there a safe way to remove the panel over the two flip top
>>> cabinets
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> access some of the side panel area?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Tips appreciated.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> __
>>>>> Mark Belanger - mbelanger@gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>