> 
> On Tue, 1 Nov 94 21:20:43 CST John Ritchie said: 
> >In my opinion, the outdoors is a place to escape from the 
> >
    [stuff gone]

> >noise, you could just go over the next ridge and be away from them. 
> >Now, you go over the next ridge and there are 12 more people there. 
>  
> yup. now you have to go THREE ridges over. and still there might be people 
> over there. 
 
   reminds me of an ice climb/snow plod in the French Alps a few years 
   ago where I had to queue for the crux of the climb and then queue
   to get onto the summit! Crazy. If you want to see an example of a
   wilderness lost, for the most part (IMHO) the Alps is it. 

>  
> >"the outdoor experience."  The question was raised: at what point does 
> >the wilderness experience lose its wilderness aspect?  Is it when you 
> >can no longer find a place where you can't see/hear other people within 
> >5 miles? 1 mile? 100 yards? 
>  
> aha! but that's part of the problem: to some people, seeing Yellowstone from 
> a Winnebago IS wilderness ... cause all they have ever known is downtown LA. 
 
   I went over to the States last year and popped into Yosemite. I couldn't
   believe how crowded it all was on the valley floor (in and around Curry
   village (have I remembered the name right?), yet I did one of the trial
   walks and met very few people, for the most part I could believe I was
   `away from it all'. Then back on the ground again and I could have been
   in a small town.....

     [more stuff gone]
>  
> joel 
> <sheesh! is it past my bedtime already?> 

    BTW, when I went over to the States I was really convinced I was
    going to see busloads (sic) of really clean splits. I wandered around
    from San Diego (sp) to San Fransisco and over into Las Vegas etc,
    but actually saw very few busses of any description. Quite a few
    nice bugs mind you. Where do hide them all? I thought So Cal would
    be crawling with the things.

    Oh well, back to work

    Marcus

-- 
__
Marcus Grant
mty016@uk.ac.cov