>From: "Jerry Hudgins" <jerry@sequoia.e-farm.com>
>
>On May 10,  4:25pm, John Gladu wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Alternate A/C refrigerants?
>>
>> I'll be taking our '90 GL to R134a in the next two weeks.
>> The local dealer quoted around $1500 for the swap (with a new compressor,
>> because, they claim, I need it).
>
>Ouch!  How much of that $1500 is the new compressor?

$500

>The fittings, seals, and coolant should be pretty inexpensive...

I've seen kits at my FLAPS for roughly $50, but that's just for the
compressor seals.  It also requires a new expansion valve (dealer wants
something like $185 for this (if I'm remembering correctly)) and a new
dryer (another $200+ part).  For some reason the task requires taking the
overhead unit down, and that's a pile of labor (I've done it before and
putting it back is one of the hardest things I've ever had to accomplish on
a VW) and labor charges.

>Something with more capacity?  Like what?  Did they have recommendations?

They're implying that they should put in a bigger compressor, coils and
condensor to offset the lack of efficiency.

>Have you looked into FR12/Frigc?  According to Pennzoil's Web page on it
>(http://www.frigc.com/), there are a ton of places in Houston that can
>install it, and they claim that:

>- it's more efficient than R143a
>- it doesn't require any equipment changes

Thanks for the tip!  I just visited the page and it sure sounds promising.
I'll do some more checking tomorrow (specifically, with my VW guru, who
recently started working for a dealer again, and will be able to give me
the "real" and "dealer" sides of the story) and find out why I've never
heard of it before.  Normally, I'd categorize this in the "too good to be
true" slot, because, well, it sounds pretty good...

>I don't anything about it beyond what they say, of course, and I don't
>expect them to be wholly objective.

Okay - I've spent a couple of hours with my trusty search engines...

FrigC is actually a blend of R22, R134a and IsoButane.  It is used with POE
oil (polyol ester, not the mineral oil in current R12 systems), which isn't
adversely affected by the chlorides that can leech out of your old system
but IS very sensitive to moisture contamination.  It's being marketed by
Pennzoil and is available at most Jiffy Lube locations.  The work required
is to put new fittings for the charging of refrigerant (an EPA requirement
to insure that strange blends, which might be dangerous, don't happen by
accident), a new label stating what type of refrigerant is in use and to
vacuum out the system and charge it with POE lubricant and FrigC.

This URL has some great information about what's in each of the
replacements for good ol' Freon -
http://www.epa.gov/docs/ozone/title6/snap/macssubs.html

I'm also looking at R406a - http://worldserver.com/ghg/ - (this is a
FANTASTIC site, with pros and cons clearly stated).
I went here mostly because I noticed that it was developed by George Gobel
at Purdue (who I respect, based on previous visits to his homepage -
http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu ) . I never realized that he'd developed a couple
of alternative refrigerants.  R406a and its brother R414a both use the
existing system (except for new fittings) and are compatible with the old
mineral oil lubricant.  So what's the drawback?  They can go right through
some hoses (require nonpermeable hoses), and, according to one of the sites
I visited, the permeable hoses are quite common on foreign vehicles.  They
are also not campatible with Buna-N seals in the compressor (they make a
replacement kit that uses Neoprene seals) and we'd have to check with VW
whether the hoses and seals are "good" or "bad" for using these
refrigerants.  Otherwise, they claim to have equal or better cooling
characteristics to good ol' Freon (R12).

After reading all of this I'm now leaning toward the R406a, if I can find a
local distributor (and, hopefully, somone who can be convinced that I don't
need a new compressor).  Tired... more tomorrow when I get some answers...

bcnu - Grungy (John Gladu)     (Houston, TX)    Opinions are just that
INTERNET: jgladu@bcm.tmc.edu			   VOICE: 713-997-1117
'60 dddPanel walk-thru  (The Bozobus)-----resting - melting 1600dp----
'89 Vanagon GL----------------------------good!-----------------------
'90 Vanagon GL----------------------------good!-----------------------
'68 & '69 Bugs--(Frunobulax & Bertha)-----on vacation (engineless)----