No criticism intended David...as you note, this stuff is pretty subjective and
the same spring may be great for one application, but too stiff for another.
steve

David Marshall wrote:

> Just to clairify things for the group.  The springs that I offer are 11.7%
> stiffer than the "pink" Syncro springs and lift a Syncro Westfalia 4cm,
> lighter vans like a 7 passenger or my Double Cab will go up 5cm.  The
> springs that I can offer are not cast in stone, they can be what ever you
> want them to be.  The comment that they are too stiff is just a comment
> from only a few people, the vast majority of people found a great
> improvement to the ride quality and handling of their Syncro.
>
> Personally I don't care if the list decides to go with Steve's springs or
> with my springs.  The Fast Forward lift kit will always be available for
> those who want it and if enough people want something different (4 or 5
> people) then I can get a custom batch made up at a special rate for the
> Vanagon list.
>
> At 10:49 08/06/1999 -0700, Steven X. Schwenk wrote:
> >Here we are thus far...thirteen, including me.  Plus,
> >Mark D. and Bruce W. want two sets....which means a
> >potential of 15 sets of springs, which likely will
> >bring the price down under $50 a spring.  If we ordered
> >only two sets, the price would have been $117.35 per
> >spring.  5 pairs were $55.74 per spring.  Yesterday
> >they quoted price for 7 pairs at $51.25 per spring.  I
> >suspect that if we dpouble the order, the price will
> >drop at least another couple dollars.
> >
> >We have enough people to get two or three different
> >springs made for different applications, if necessary.
> >We need to break down into groups.  Westy & Non-westy
> >is one possible group.  Some want taller and firmer
> >than others.  We need to get a handle on what everyone
> >wants.
> >
> >My goal is approximately 10% stiffer (but there is some
> >confusion on whether the Marshall tall springs were 17%
> >stiffer or 11.7% stiffer....and we are basing the 10%
> >on the assumption that the Marshall springs were too
> >stiff....hopefully we can get one of those springs over
> >to Betts for testing).  As for height, I want vehicle
> >height to be what VW determined the best height for
> >suspension performance (so we get full use of available
> >travel without premature topping out or bottoming
> >out)...and will be doing some measuring here and on
> >other non-westies to nail this down, but right now it
> >looks like an inch or less above what the typical
> >syncro westy is.  Now is the time to voice your
> >preferences.
> >
> >HOMEWORK:
> >
> >Everyone please wrtite back and tell me
> >
> >(1)what van you have...westy or non-westy, double cab,
> >etc.;
> >(2) what is your preference re % of stiffness and
> >vehicle height;
> >(3) what is the current amount of sag on you van at the
> >front?
> >
> >To get the sag, place van on level surface and measure
> >from the bottom of the wheel well to (1) the center of
> >the dust cap and (2) bottom of wheel well to the bottom
> >inner lip of the wheel/rim... (not sure which one we
> >will use yet so please take both....the top of the
> >inner lip of the wheel is easier to measure but we may
> >have steel and alum wheels to deal with.
> >
> >Vehicle weighs would be helpful, too....even if just
> >the VW specs....for westy, non-westy, double cab, etc.
> >
> >Bear in mind that you will not get full performance out
> >of the new springs unless your shocks are working
> >good.  the shock and spring do very different things,
> >but work closely together, so one will affectr the
> >performance of the other.  Shock brand will not matter
> >since we are only increasinbg stiffness a modest
> >amount.  If you increase stiffness by any significant
> >amount, you have to change re-bound damping, but that
> >will not be a problem here....have already discussed
> >this with the engineers and will address it more once
> >the data comes back from everyone.
> >
> >Please do the homework, and then we can determine
> >whether we need to get more than one type of spring
> >made.
> >steve
> >
> >
>
> --   David Marshall - Vanagon List Admin - Quesnel, BC, Canada   --
> --    78 VW Rabbit, 80 VW Caddy, 84 VW Westie, 85 VW Cabriolet   --
> --       87 Audi 5000 Quattro, 88 2.0L VW Syncro Double Cab      --
> -- David's Volkswagen Home Page        http://www.volkswagen.org --
> -- Fast Forward Autobahn Sport Tuning  http://www.fastforward.ca --
> -- david@volkswagen.org (pmail) or vanagon@volkswagen.org (list) --