I did not mean to say 'leave the same coolant in for 100K miles'. I meant
change the coolant, but with the same type already in the 'test' vans, as
preventative maintenance, and you still will get leaks, regardless of the
type. I have serviced high mileage (one has 200K) non-leakers, and the
common thread has been that they are in constant use, and have less
cool-down-heat-up cycles. Why do some leak before 30~40K? Lack of use? I
will continue to call a spade a spade, the waterboxer head gasket design is
a poor one. Subarus don't have the problem, they actually designed the
engine for liquid cooling instead of adding water jackets to an air-cooled
design. (Flame suit is now out of the closet and on)

Karl

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Walker <jwalker@bama.ua.edu>
To: karl <thewestyman@MINDSPRING.COM>
Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: DM: Re: VW coolant

>
> > Here's a 'scientific' test for you to try: Take 3 new waterboxers, one
with
> > green ethylene, one with green propylene, and one with the $$$ 'special'
> > dealer coolant. Drive each 100K miles, under identical conditions. At
this
>
> well, you can believe what you want to, but anybody who leaves
> anti-freeze in a cooling system for 100,000 miles is definitely
> gonna have problems!!! ALL FLUIDS in a vehicle should be replaced
> regularly, and the coolant is no exception! when? about every two
> years or 30,000 miles. why? cause the anti-corrosion additives
> get depleted. gee, just like engine oil and transmission
> oil/fluid ... coolant wears out. and when it does (after about
> three years), you'll start having problems with corrosion. in ANY
> car. don't believe me? check with the 18-wheelers ... see what
> they do with their coolant every three months or so (they drive a
> LOT more miles than you). you'll find they have a filter on their
> cooling system, and they put new additive chemical sticks in new
> filters ... same thing as replacing the coolant, but they can't
> afford to have the truck sit and cool overnight to drain the
> whole system.
>
> check with Mercedes and find out why they replace the coolant
> every 30,000 miles ...whether you like it or not. bring it in for
> 30,000 or 60,000 or 90,000 mile services, and guess what? you're
> gonna get your coolant REPLACED. other auto makers do the same
> ... not very many bother to tell the customer that he/she NEEDS
> to have it done. and vw and the vw dealers were very remiss (in
> my humble opinion) in that regard: they should have TOLD us, but
> the owner's manuals lead you to believe that antifreeze/coolant
> is 'permanent'. it isn't. whenever you have WATER and HEAT,
> you'll get corrosion. only the additives stand between you and
> head gasket leaks ... keep the additives fresh and you shouldn't
> have any problems.
>
> my 88 bus, bought brand new and having the coolant replaced every
> couple of years, has 143,000 miles on it with no head gaskets.
> gee, that's MORE than 100,000 miles ... why haven't i had the
> head gasket leaks? :)
>
> but everybody can believe what you want ... it's poor design,
> cheap parts, just a ploy by the anti-freeze producers to sell
> more of their product, whatever. but think about it ... why would
> you expect coolant to last forever? would you leave engine oil in
> the motor for 100,000 miles? then why leave the coolant in there
> that long?
>
> unca joel